Open Thread for Those Who Have Finished ASoS [SPOILERS]

[trueWaif]

Sansa: Wow, I have a totally different attitude towards Littlefinger and Sansa. Even in the short time she's spent with LF, Sansa has shown two things that were oddly lacking in her character before, cunning and anger. Granted she was angry before LF, but could never show it. One of my favorite parts of the book was when Sansa destroyed Robert's doll. The relationship between LF and Sansa is going to be complicated but I think mutually beneficial. I think she'll be able to learn quickly how to manipulate by following LF's example, and I think she'll be shockingly good at it (Sansa is extremely empathetic, she can use that perspective to get what she wants from ppl. That's something Cersei could never master). As for LF's motives, they are bizarre, he's using Sansa to gain the North and he obviously looks at Sansa and sees Cat, which is weird but beneficial to Sansa.

The most shocking part of the book for was when it was reveiled that Cat was brought back from the dead. With all this talk of "zombie Cat" I guess I knew it was coming but just brushed it off. I'm horrified by Cat 2.0! Talk about hell on Earth. But now she has then opportunity for revenge, and I seriously doubt she'll waste. I think she's going to be the most horrific and destructive character in Westeros, making the Moutain look like a saint. And I really don't mind, LoL.

I'm fasinated by the Dornish ppl, but omg, I was so pissedOberyn got cocky and got himself murdered by the Mountain!

As for the mystical foreshadowing that someone mentioned, I forgot all about that! I'll have to go back and read Dany's chapter in the house of Undying.

I love GRRM's female characters, Arya, Cersei, Sansa, Dany (even Brianne, who I find totally boring). (first few chapters of) AFFC:

I just started AFFC and it so far has a lot of female powerhouses taking the stage with the Sand Snakes and Cersei POV chapters. And Arya is finally not on the run anymore!! I hope she turns into the most badass assassin. Sansa already seems more confident in herself and smarter. Cersei is being pushed into a corner, it's interesting to see how she reacts (I don't think she'll fare well, no one really loves her, she has no one.... she's even alienated Jamie). I do hope Arya and Sansa meet a little later in life when they have their adult personalities fleshed out, and maybe they can team up. Probably won't happen tho. I really want to see Sansa finish off the Lannisters. I'm also betting that somehow LF will gain total control over the Eryie and marry Sansa, I just don't know exactly how he'll pull it all off.

[Grumpkin Hunter]

First post here. Like many I was first exposed to the HBO series and have devoured the first 3 books in about 3.5 weeks, just finished this one today.

My first thought after finishing...wow...wow...wow, I'll try and compose myself.

In my oppinion the fight between Oberyn and the mountain was my favorite part. The quick Dornishman dancing around the Mountain jabbing him with that spear yelling "You raped her, you murdered her, and you Killed her children!" over and over as Gregor hopelessly swung his sword around. I mean I started getting pumped, Gregor pinned to the ground with a spear through the gut, and then my gut wrenched as I heard the prince's skull crack when Gregor got that lucky blow. I stared at the page in wide eyed/ open mouthed disbelief. Great moment.

I would have been more pumped if I could stop thinking... " Hello, my name is Inigo Montoyo. You killed my father, prepare to die."

As to the perplexing LF: GRRM left himself the ultimate out when he had LF say something to the effect of do things which are unexpected so you are never suspected to Sansa when he picked her up. Sorry, can't remember the exact quote. Regardless of motive his moves can always be accounted for with this "necessary and proper" clause, which kind of sucks. Hopefully this is not evoked too often.

Now to the Starks:

For some reason the Red Wedding didn't affect me as much as some others. When I saw what happened to Bran and Rickon (or didn't) I was physically ill. By the Red Wedding I expected it, with Robb at least. He never lost in battle and I always expected him to die of treachery. That scene was not at all suprising except for Cat dying, but I was never particularly fond of her in life anyway. I look forward to her post death.

I was very happy to see the way Jon Snow panned out. While I was hopeful he would become Lord of Winterfell, I'm glad he didn't burn the weirwood and stayed true to his vows.

The Starks have the potential to be the most fearsome family in all the 7 kingdoms with Bran as a Stage 7 Warg (Yes I made this up) with extra supernatural abilities and a clairvoyant advisor, Arya as a ruthless assassin, and Rickon as the obligatory loose cannon warrior prince with his bloodthirsty wolf. Sansa fills a nice void for traditional negotiation and more importantly scheming and now Lady Catelyn gives them an undead ally.

[GearedUp]

Much like fellow Grumpkin hunter, this is my first post here & I too devoured these first 3 books quickly. Just finished aSoS yesterday.

This book is my fav so far. Can't wait to keep plowing through the rest to find out what becomes of the surviving.

Jamie is the obvious one who seems to be on a path of redemption, at least in the point of view of the reader after we learn about the Kingslayer achieved his namesake.

Tyrion (the primary character in aCoK) seems to take the opposite path. He was the Lannister we were probably all rooting for until strangling his concubine and shooting his father on the toilet (privy). Also, Tyrion & Jamie's meeting with the Imp "confessing" out of spite that he killed Joffrey seems to lose him more points in my book too.

I wonder what will happen with both Tyrion & Varys in aFfC (oh and to the person who asked if it was Varys in the dungeon tunnels back in Arya's aGoT chapter...It was Varys and Magister Illyrio too based on their descriptions and also based on the HBO scene...seemingly conspiring towards bringing the Targaryens back to Westeros). Why does Varys help him out? I'm never certain what Varys is thinking...

[Crown]

Much like fellow Grumpkin hunter, this is my first post here & I too devoured these first 3 books quickly. Just finished aSoS yesterday.

This book is my fav so far. Can't wait to keep plowing through the rest to find out what becomes of the surviving.

Jamie is the obvious one who seems to be on a path of redemption, at least in the point of view of the reader after we learn about the Kingslayer achieved his namesake.

Tyrion (the primary character in aCoK) seems to take the opposite path. He was the Lannister we were probably all rooting for until strangling his concubine and shooting his father on the toilet (privy). Also, Tyrion & Jamie's meeting with the Imp "confessing" out of spite that he killed Joffrey seems to lose him more points in my book too.

I wonder what will happen with both Tyrion & Varys in aFfC (oh and to the person who asked if it was Varys in the dungeon tunnels back in Arya's aGoT chapter...It was Varys and Magister Illyrio too based on their descriptions and also based on the HBO scene...seemingly conspiring towards bringing the Targaryens back to Westeros). Why does Varys help him out? I'm never certain what Varys is thinking...

Varys serves the realm.

[Horza]

Varys serves the realm.

...says Varys. No one else.

[pinksand]

I would have been more pumped if I could stop thinking... " Hello, my name is Inigo Montoyo. You killed my father, prepare to die."

You and me both!

I finished ASOS Saturday; read it 4 days. Devoured it, really. It's one of the best books I've read in the past dozen years. Absolutely amazing!

I am concerned about Arya too, as others have mentioned. She does seem to have a lot of vengeance in her, and that's not something that leads to a healthy, well-adjusted adulthood.

But I did cheer when she got Needle back!

Balon Greyjoy - so we saw Renly die, and Joffrey, and Robb - and we just hear secondhand that Balon, what - fell off a bridge or something? That seemed odd - just a detail tossed off to sew up that storyline. Could have at least devoted more time to it in a 900+ page book.

I am a little surprised more people didn't see Robb's death coming, although not in such a traitorous and grisly way.

Joffrey - I was sure his death wouldn't come for another couple books, so I was really really (pleasantly) surprised at this!

Jaime - absolutely became one of the most interesting characters in the series in this book. Stannis also became a lot more interesting at the end, with his whole "act like a king, be the king" plan. Although by all accounts, he looks like hell. Is that Melisandre character draining the life out of him?

Glad to see Samwell is getting a storyline beyond just being Jon's sidekick. He's really quite a guy.

Didn't see Catelyn becoming the new Lord Beric. It will be interesting to watch her exact revenge on everyone in upcoming books (I hope).

When I first got these books, they're so huge, I thought more time would pass and we'd see the kids grow up more. I am a little surprised that hasn't been the case, although it may be in later books.

[Xtopher]

Wait, when it is said that Catelyn is resurrected? how could i have missed that in Storm??

i never skip chapters and i havent read about that. could someone please tell me in what chapter does this occur?

last thing i knew was her being dragged out of the river by the pack of wolves.

[Noelle Snow]

You haven't finished the book yet that's why you don't know. You just spoiled the end for yourself.

[Xtopher]

actually i have finished the book. can u tell me what POV is it? i know its not "catelyn". maybe "arya"?

[Horza]

It's in the epilogue chapter.

[Xtopher]

Oh i never read that. i thought it was a chapter from the next book :S

then i think i havent read the epilogue from Clash either, dammit.

[Noelle Snow]

Clash didn't have an epilogue. That first showed up in Storm. Only Storm and ADWD have epilogues. Definitely read the Storm epilogue. It's fabulous.

[Xtopher]

Clash didn't have an epilogue. That first showed up in Storm. Only Storm and ADWD have epilogues. Definitely read the Storm epilogue. It's fabulous.

Thanx i definitely will. i dont know what happened, i must have been in such a rush to begin with Feast that i forgot the epilogue lol.

[KhaleesiDany]

When i read the epilogue I was sooo disappointed that Catelyn came back. I wish Oberyn had come back instead! I don't really like Catelyn but her story was cool, and it was really sad when she thought they were going to cut her hair but they cut her head off instead. I thought it was powerful that she tried to get vengeance by killing jinglebell. She seems pretty evil now.

[Xtopher]

I just read the Epilogue. Man i almost felt sorry for poor Merrett, the way Martin makes you care about someone just before killing them is just beautiful.

A also disliked Catelyn through the books but now at least we will apparently get to see her in a new and hopefully better perspective. Dont wanna know why Lord Beric wasnt around :(

[silvermug]

All the deaths and fights in this book kept me up until late hours. Sometimes I would read a POV and tell myself, “Ok, last one for tonight!”; and then GRRM just ends it with this great line from whomever and then I see the next POV – “Oh crap, I wonder what happened to her?” And so, I would continue. I also like this book better than ACoK because near the end of the book, the scenes became kind of sequential, just delivered in different POVs. Unlike ACoK, reading through POVs made me jump from one place to another so I had to recall where I left off.

· The bear pit scene with Jaime and Brienne – that just did it for me. I'm now going for Jaime-Brienne, romantically or not.

· Sansa – Oh geez, I thought this girl was good for nothing. I mean, she’s beautiful yes, and from a powerful house, but other than that – nothing. I was annoyed during the time that she was with Tyrion. She was living lifelessly. UNTIL Petyr got her. I am sensing (or I hope!) that Petyr might end up teaching her the way of how the game is played; take her out of her sheltered life and her utopian world and show her what is real. I just hope that she would be smart enough to use Petyr’s ways and means but not forgetting her honor as a Stark. She could be the antithesis of Cersei. Both are beautiful and from powerful houses (well Cersei has coins, she doesn’t). If Sansa learns well from Petyr, she could be cunning and actually take part in things; and not just be beautiful and then nothing.

· Jon – wow, this guy has been put into several tests of honor in this book. He was put into hard situations and had to make hard decisions. The Halfhand asked him to be an undercover guy, while indirectly asking to kill him in the process. I have to say that his last conversation with the Halfhand was one sad one, especially the part when they recited their vows together in front of that fire. I cried. Then he had to struggle refusing the forward Ygritte, but eventually gave in and broke his vow; only to betray her when he escaped from Magnar’s group. And then Ygritte got killed during the attack of the Wall. And then he was accused of being a turncloak by Janos Slynt – and then sent out to negotiate with Mance, the guy he truly betrayed. And then come Stannis, offering him legitimacy along with Winterfell and Val as his bride. Seriously! Just how hard are these?

I am still not very clear about the death of Joffrey. And sorry, but this is how I just came to realize that Petyr would take it so far, just to get what he wants. So, it was the amethyst from Sansa’s hair net. The Martell woman took one before the wedding while pretending to fix her hair, and then what? Placed it in Joff’s cup? But wasn’t Margaery drinking from the same cup, too? Did they mean to kill both? When did this Petyr-Martell team up start?

[Sylvan Fox]

I am still not very clear about the death of Joffrey. And sorry, but this is how I just came to realize that Petyr would take it so far, just to get what he wants. So, it was the amethyst from Sansa’s hair net. The Martell woman took one before the wedding while pretending to fix her hair, and then what? Placed it in Joff’s cup? But wasn’t Margaery drinking from the same cup, too? Did they mean to kill both? When did this Petyr-Martell team up start?

Martell? No, it wasn't a Martell.

[silvermug]

Martell? No, it wasn't a Martell.

Oh, Olenna... I still can't picture how the events happened.. :/

[pinksand]

· Sansa – Oh geez, I thought this girl was good for nothing. I mean, she’s beautiful yes, and from a powerful house, but other than that – nothing. I was annoyed during the time that she was with Tyrion. She was living lifelessly. UNTIL Petyr got her. I am sensing (or I hope!) that Petyr might end up teaching her the way of how the game is played; take her out of her sheltered life and her utopian world and show her what is real. I just hope that she would be smart enough to use Petyr’s ways and means but not forgetting her honor as a Stark. She could be the antithesis of Cersei. Both are beautiful and from powerful houses (well Cersei has coins, she doesn’t). If Sansa learns well from Petyr, she could be cunning and actually take part in things; and not just be beautiful and then nothing.

·

I like Sansa, but she is at her most interesting as a character when she's in danger. When she's frightened for her life, she matures a bit and finds depths of strength even she didn't know she had (I'm thinking of when the battle started and Cersei left but Sansa gave that little speech that seemed to make everyone feel better). When Sansa feels secure she seems to revert back to being a spoiled child. So with Petyr maybe she'll be nervous enough about her position to grow up a bit more.

[Lyana]

I finished the book a couple of days ago - it is the best book so far. The first half was ok, but the second half - starting with the RW - was ... wow!!!

There are so many great moments. On the top of my head:

Jaime - the Oathkeeper:

Jaime's turnover was so unexpected! I love the way his story arc is developing. He has become such an interesting character - trying to do the right things, but somehow at the end always being considered as a man with no honour and an oathbreaker. Brienne was in this case his strong moral compass. She showed him his worst features and threw them in his face all the time, till he actually realized how he looks in other people's eyes and more important why. I loved the part with his return to KL and the ambiguous meaning of him becoming the head of the KG. The man who always recalls in his memory Ned Stark and all the great knights, who wanted to be like them, but was rejected in some way, by being called the Kingslayer.

Arya - the mini-Jaquen:

Arya and her finally getting back Needle ... and her revenge to one member of her night prayers. I always knew that she will have her sword back. I kind of hoped she will meet Nymeria again, but I guess I'll have to wait. I was not found of her and Sandor travelling around. The Hound had more interesting interaction with Sansa, but their paths seem to separate, so I'm pleased with the way things are going. There will be something seriously messed up with this kid. I expect here more assassinations and less thoughts about her family. I thing she has the potential to become a really dark character with really messed up ideas about good and evil. But who could blame her, after everything she's been gone through. But that is fine by me. She is one of my favourites and I can't wait to find out what happens to her next.

Sam the Slayer:

So pleased that Sam has its own POV. He is one of the most realistic characters and I loved to see the NW through his eyes. The "great" Watch being introduced through the eyes of a coward and somehow this "coward" turned up to have the closest interaction with an Other anyone has ever had and stayed alive (as far as I know). I was pleasantly surprised that he crossed ways with Bran. Also I expect more to happen between him and Gilly. Will see what is going there.

Oberyn for president!!!

Oh, how I liked that character! He was so charismatic and mysterious, seeking justice and revenge ... I really wished he didn't have to disapper from the surface so early. And the fight between him and the Mountain - that was some great writing, so full of suspense and me showting "Nooooooooo" at the end. I don't like the Cleganes, so I'm glad that Gegor is really suffering. I'm really looking forward to learn more about Dorne. Those folks seem to be awesome.

Bran - the Warg:

Ok, he finally made it to the Wall. Yay!!! It was great that he was involved in Jon's escape from the wildlings. I knew they won't meet but it was really refreshing that two Starks were so close. Bran's chapter is turning out to be a great adventure storyline:

- warging into direwolf - checked,

- warging into Hodor - checked,

- have some really weird friends with extraordinary powers - checked,

- listening to some stories from the past with ambiguous meaning - checked,

- finally meeting the third-eyed-crow - che.... No, wait ... who is that guy again? Ok, meeting one more mysterious character - checked.

I have the feeling that Bran's POV will be of great importance and can't wait to read more about his adventures.

Sansa - thank God there are some other characters around her:

This girl has to start thinking and learning. And it would better be fast. Now she has the best teacher. She ignored Tyrion (completely understandable), but now she has to pay more attention to LF's actions and stop imagining that some brave knight is finally going to rescue her. I admit that the last chapter with her was a big surprise - there was a major plot-twist, which I didn't see coming. Now I finally have some admiration to LF (I'm more of a Varys-fan). Can't really say more for now. Hopefully her character is going through some major change.

Dany - the Queen of ... not Westeros?

I have to admit , besides the House of Undying - chapter in the second book, there wasn't actually anything interesting in her storyline. But in the third book I was kind of excited about her conquering expeditions. The one thing that bothered me, was her great strategic decisions during the battels, which came from ... nowhere. I am aware that the dragons have to grow up, and so has Dany, but I hope she makes it to Westeros soon (with at least one dragon). I've seen enough exotic cultures already.

Father/son - issues:

Well, I'm glad to finally find out, that Tywin does not shit gold. Imagine how weird would that be... But the guy deseved it. I was happy to see some justice here. Tyrion's storyline was as interesting as always. He had to make some tough decisions (mostly to kill people at the end) and he is now furious with all the members of his family and will hopefully get the f*** out of KL. I always knew that he and Varys have some special bond. I don't know how his character is going to be more awesome than that, but I will be glad to find out.

Jon - the LC:

My favourite character has a great storyline in this book. There were so many awesome moments in his plotline and he had to make some tough decisions too. His character is developing with every chapter. I expect him, now that he is the LC, to feel less sorry for himself and not being preoccupied with his bastard-issues, but to be more focused on the current situation. With Stannis and Mel around him, he will have to show some diplomatic skills, but also a good leading qualities. I was pleasantly suprised by the chapter, where he was in charge of defending the Wall. Showed some great strategic thinking. Some significant moments were:

- when he first met Mance,

- the moments in the cave,

- the escape from Ygritte and the wildlings,

- the defence of the Wall - one of the best-described battles in the books,

- his dialogue with Sannis,

- Ghost finding him and how that affects his decision

- and the final chapter where he is named LC.

I just couldn't figure out how the h*** did Mormont's raven get there. Does anyone has some theories or is this explained in the next two books?

Stannis to the rescue:

Finally one king who pays attention to the true danger. I'm really starting to like the guy. No matter for what reasons, he is ready to defend the realm from the one danger that really matters - not fighting over some stupid iron chair. I'm curious to see how that goes. Davos is also cool, but Mel is kind of odd - not really trustworthy for now.

Three weddings and two funerals:

The RW - that were some hard pages to read. I already described my reaction while reading the RW in another thread, so I won't write tha same all over again here. But one thing is for sure - hate the Freys and the Boltons - they must get what they deserve.

The other wedding with unhappy ending (not that Tyrion and Sansa were happy, but at least both of them stayed alive) was not that shocking. But I was really intigued, who the possible poisoner might be. I actually felt a bit sorry for Joffrey (yeah, that's right!) and Cersei. No idea where that pity come from. I also liked the character of the QoT - it is very interesting. The whole introducing of some new families like the Martells and the Tyrells is pretty cool.

The Un-factor:

Undead, Uncatelyn, Unberic ... lots of Un-characters are coming towards us. I trust GRRM completely and I'm sure that they all surve some important purpose. Can't really comment on this issue without more information. So I will just keep reading and see what Uncat is up to.

Wow, I just wrote a short novel myself :) Good luck to those who dare to reed the whole thing :)

Starting to read AFfC now ....