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Emily Snow

Open Thread for Those Who Have Finished ASoS [SPOILERS]

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Now that Catelyn has returned, can someone confirm whether or not she is going to be a POV character again in AFFC?

Maybe in a spoiler tag incase no one else wants to know

No, she is not a POV in aFfC

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Im a 100 pages in AFFC and I read a line on Thoros of Myr and reminded me of ASOS. Thoros and the lord of lighting seemed like very interesting characters, will we be seeing more of them?

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Im a 100 pages in AFFC and I read a line on Thoros of Myr and reminded me of ASOS. Thoros and the lord of lighting seemed like very interesting characters, will we be seeing more of them?

Yes.

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I finished ASoS a couple of days ago, and after all that has happened (RW etc.), I am still a bit in awe. It was also kind of nice to get the resolution for the two "whodunnits" (Jon Arryn and Bran) introduced in the first book. I guess you can see here that the first three books were orginally planned as one book.

However, I'm still wondering why Littlefinger said the dagger of Bran's assasin was Tyrion's. I can't figure out what possible motive he might have had, since Tyrion was at that time only a small player. I have to admit, it does bug me, because Martin has really done a stellar job in portraying the characters and their motives, desires etc. So for every major action a character has done in the books, I was able to understand why he or she did it. For example, I can follow how weak-minded Lysa was persuaded by Littlefinger (her teenage and never overcome love) to kill her husband (a loveless marriage and a man who wasa lot older than her). So, does anyone else have the same problem or can somebody offer me insight into Littlefinger's thoughts?

I think Littlefinger sent the killer to Bran's room not Joffrey. The assumption that Joffrey sent the assassin makes sense but we never actually get confirmation much like how we assumed Lannister's killed John Arryn.

I believe Littlefinger was at the feast when Robert went to Winterfell but did not make himself known, just like he was supposed to be at the Vale but was actually in King's Landing all along. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but when Sansa is building her snow castle and doesn't know what to do about the glass roof over the gardens, littlefinger replies "The glass was locked in frames, no?" how could he have known that without seeing it? or maybe its commonsense sense that glass would be in frames but to me that was a bit off.

We all now know that Littlefinger was behind Arryn's death (Lysa poisoning Arryn and sending the warning to Winterfell) and I believe he did it to get Ned Stark to King's Landing so he can bring Catelyn with him. He knew Ned Stark would look into Arryn's death and thanks to Lysa's warning suspects numbero uno would be the Lannisters. Ned would find the truth about Cersei and Jamie and dig his own grave.

But thing's changed when Bran fell, Catelyn basically went comatose so he had to get Catelyn to King's Landing somehow, he meant to use her grief over Bran's death to go to Ned. So after Ned was killed he could "comfort" the widow Stark. Him lying to Cat just sped up his plans, he figured she would tell Ned about the dagger and then Ned would do something stupid like killing Tyrion when he returned from the Wall but he didnt figure Ned was gonna send Cat away or that she would run into Tyrion and kidnap him.

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I think Littlefinger sent the killer to Bran's room not Joffrey. The assumption that Joffrey sent the assassin makes sense but we never actually get confirmation much like how we assumed Lannister's killed John Arryn.

I believe Littlefinger was at the feast when Robert went to Winterfell but did not make himself known, just like he was supposed to be at the Vale but was actually in King's Landing all along. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but when Sansa is building her snow castle and doesn't know what to do about the glass roof over the gardens, littlefinger replies "The glass was locked in frames, no?" how could he have known that without seeing it? or maybe its commonsense sense that glass would be in frames but to me that was a bit off.

We all now know that Littlefinger was behind Arryn's death (Lysa poisoning Arryn and sending the warning to Winterfell) and I believe he did it to get Ned Stark to King's Landing so he can bring Catelyn with him. He knew Ned Stark would look into Arryn's death and thanks to Lysa's warning suspects numbero uno would be the Lannisters. Ned would find the truth about Cersei and Jamie and dig his own grave.

But thing's changed when Bran fell, Catelyn basically went comatose so he had to get Catelyn to King's Landing somehow, he meant to use her grief over Bran's death to go to Ned. So after Ned was killed he could "comfort" the widow Stark. Him lying to Cat just sped up his plans, he figured she would tell Ned about the dagger and then Ned would do something stupid like killing Tyrion when he returned from the Wall but he didnt figure Ned was gonna send Cat away or that she would run into Tyrion and kidnap him.

It's an interesting theory, and it's definitely in the realms of possibility. We know that Littlefinger seems to use the ship network a fair bit so he could have easily visited Winterfel and got back in time for Robert's return.

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I just finished ADWD, but ASOS remains my favorite, in retrospect. Very disturbing, in a brilliant way.

The Red Wedding made for a strange reading experience. I remember what a nasty shock it was when Bran and Rickon were "murdered" by Theon in ACOK. It felt so wrong and so excessively brutal it was almost a dealbreaker for me, so the revelation that they were alive was a huge relief. And when Catelyn and Robb were butchered, it felt just as wrong, so I couldn't help but wonder if they would be brought back somehow (while thinking to myself that I'd probably lose all respect for GRRM if he pulled a second kill-two-starks-then-bring-them-back feat). Well, suffice it to say that the manner in which Catelyn was brought back doubled my respect for GRRM. Not a lot of people seem to like zombie Catelyn but I thought it was a nice poetic touch that a grieving mother turned into a horrific, vengeful, undiscerning monster.

I also loved how the seemingly 100% evil characters were fleshed out. Especially the way Jaime slowly came to respect and actually like Brienne.

I skimmed through a few threads about Sansa and Littlefinger and was ashamed to find myself the only one who actually thought for a second that LF was a nice guy when he rescued Sansa after Joffrey's wedding. I admit, I was completely fooled by his "Catelyn gave me a daughter, oh don't worry sweetling I'll take care of you" speech. It even made me tear up a bit, because it seemed so sweet and innocent after all the horror she'd been through. :( And considering the sheer number of twisted and evil characters, I really wanted to believe that one of them was actually warm and fuzzy. Ha, picked the wrong guy to pin my hopes on. If the first book/season had any Pedobear!Baelish moments I must've not picked up on them, because I found that chapter when he helped her build that castle in the snow and then kissed her more shocking than The Red Wedding... Also can't help but wonder how he'll react to news of zombie Catelyn. It would be the most entertaining reunion ever.

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I have no doubt the mods will be happy with this thread. It saves them from having to monitor so many mid-book threads looking for spoilers.

SO! What's your new perspective on the Queen of Thorns' involvement in Joffrey's death (also known as the Purple Wedding). I'm thinking if I'm an innocent, pretty, high-born girl about to be given in marriage to a socio-monster-king, I'd want Oleanna as my grandma, for sure. But, its no small move on House Tyrell's part, to be sure. One doesn't murder a king, at the same time placing their own girl on the throne, without expecting a tidal wave of repercussions!

Yeah this has had me wondering ever since I read. I have to think that if she simply was trying to protect her grandchild there were ways of doing it that didn't involve murder. Part of me wants to believe that, her being aged and wiser saw that a king as cruel as Joffery would spell disaster for the rehlm and was acting for the good of Westeros too in some was.

Still I don't really understand how she did it without also risking poisoning her granddaughter.

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It's an interesting theory, and it's definitely in the realms of possibility. We know that Littlefinger seems to use the ship network a fair bit so he could have easily visited Winterfel and got back in time for Robert's return.

I often thought that the start of the war was Jaime's fault, pushing Bran out the window. And it caused this circle of events. I can't get my head around knowing that Petyr intentionally started a war by murdering Jon Arryn. To what end? Did it just start off as a plot to have Catelyn widowed so he could have her? I mean, that went wrong.... is it so he could take the throne.... Which also seems odd.

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I often thought that the start of the war was Jaime's fault, pushing Bran out the window. And it caused this circle of events. I can't get my head around knowing that Petyr intentionally started a war by murdering Jon Arryn. To what end? Did it just start off as a plot to have Catelyn widowed so he could have her? I mean, that went wrong.... is it so he could take the throne.... Which also seems odd.

It's pretty unclear that Littlefinger's actual plan was. I don't think him doing all this to get Sansa is feasible as up until she arrived at kings landing he presumably had never seen her. His motivations are definitely very vague right now. He must have known that Ned's death would also put Catelyn in danger, and as a ripple effect has resulted in her death. So now I believe his only motivation is for power. He was unable to claim Catelyn's hand in marriage because of his birth, so now he is going to shake shit up :laugh:

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I think Littlefinger sent the killer to Bran's room not Joffrey. The assumption that Joffrey sent the assassin makes sense but we never actually get confirmation much like how we assumed Lannister's killed John Arryn.

I believe Littlefinger was at the feast when Robert went to Winterfell but did not make himself known, just like he was supposed to be at the Vale but was actually in King's Landing all along. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but when Sansa is building her snow castle and doesn't know what to do about the glass roof over the gardens, littlefinger replies "The glass was locked in frames, no?" how could he have known that without seeing it? or maybe its commonsense sense that glass would be in frames but to me that was a bit off.

...

Interesting theory, indeed, but I'm not entirely convinced. The knowledge could have come from an ealier visit to Winterfell, or he could have had read about it. Children of noble birth are educated about the houses, and Littlefinger being a ward of Tully, he could have easily picked that up from somewhere.

Also if it really was Littlefinger, I think GRRM would have written some clues about it by now (or did we all miss something?). From a literary standpoint, it makes sense to attribute the assasination to Joffrey. It makes you think that it is a kind of bitter irony that the whole war and chaos are just the results of the actions of a spoiled brat trying to impress his father.

What bothers the most about Littlefinger putting the blame to Tyrion is that it could have so easily backlashed if Cat had not captured Tyrion by the inn. Tyrion would have most likely returned to KL unharmed. Ned would have had more time to collect some evidence for a proper trial. He probaly would know then that LF lied about winning the dagger over bet with Tyrion at the tournament. That in return would have made Littlefinger suspect no. 1. So my question is this: Why did LF made that lie about the dagger when it could have been so easily discovered?

I can't get my head around knowing that Petyr intentionally started a war by murdering Jon Arryn. To what end?

I think LF wanted to get rif of Jon Arryn because he started to "put his nose where it doesn't belong" (finding out about incest of C&J, for example). He maybe saw him as someone who might get in the way of his plans, whatever they may be. Remember Jon Arryn, although also a man of integrity like Ned, had also a lot of political player and was not unaccustomed to scheming. It was him who started the rebellion against the Mad King, quickly made allies with the Tullys etc. LF maybe feared Jon Arryn might find out that LF is a real menace for the peace of the realm. A lot of maybes and mights, I know, but that's the most logical explantion I can come up with.

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Hello. I was wondering of someone could tell me more about Lord Beric. I am currently reading Book 3, and am confused... is he is a zombie? "6 times is too much." ...will there be an explanation later on in the book?

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Hello. I was wondering of someone could tell me more abput Lord Beric. I am currently reading book 3 , and am confused as if he is a zombie? "6 times is too much." ...will there be an explanation later on in the book?

Thoros explains it in that chapter and zombie isn't the word.

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Thoros explains it in that chapter and zombie isn't the word.

I see, Thank you for the reply. So far I am excited about Bran's potential...but how could he have "touched" Hodor? At the Gift.

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I see, Thank you for the reply. So far I am excited about Bran's potential...but how could he have "touched" Hodor? At the Gift.

I think of it as working in a similar way as when he "touches" Summer. By this point, we've gotten some clues to warging, and it will become a bigger part of story later.

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What did the Freys do to Robb's body?? They threw Catelyn's body into the river and had Grey Wind's head stitched in place of Robb's, but after that what happened next?

If it is going to be revealed in a later book then please put it in spoiler tags! :)

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I just joined these forums not too long ago, and after skimming through the threads (about ASoS in particular) I haven't read anything about what Tyrion did at the end and how it might impact his 'new' relationship with Jaime. It was apparent that Jaime has come to appreciate his younger brother more, and although Tyrion did lie to him about Joff's death, I still think Jaime believes he was innocent, but I can't imagine what will happen between them two after Jaime learns about their father's death. Thoughts?

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What did the Freys do to Robb's body?? They threw Catelyn's body into the river and had Grey Wind's head stitched in place of Robb's, but after that what happened next?

If it is going to be revealed in a later book then please put it in spoiler tags! :)

I had never even wondered that. I don't think it's ever explained.

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