[BOOK SPOILERS] What would you like for the TV show to change?

[Chirios]

No character who wasn't Tywin's son would lose sympathy, but Tyrion happens to be Tywin's son.

So? Nobody thought Luke was an evil bastard when he chopped of Vaders' hand, and Vader arguably deserved to die less than Tywin did.

They already left out the bit about Tyrion raping Tysha, and I think that was a very wise decision. The patricide if done will have a very dramatic impact, but it needs to be done v carefully. One way would be for Tyrion to be visibly too upset to be fully in control of his actions.

Hell no. Tyrion killing Tywin was the final thread that needed to be cut, he'd gone from being a small boy terrified of this giant of an abusive father to taking control of his destiny, when he killed his father he cut off all his loyalty to the Lannisters, he should know exactly what he's doing. Plus if he doesn't know what he's doing he won't get what is one of the best lines in all of fiction imo:

"Now if you could be so kind as to die, I have somewhere to be."

I don't think I'd like to see Arya going insane. Again, it's important to keep the audience caring about the character. I'd rather see some of the killing cut out....It'll be interesting to see how they handle it.

1) Arya arguably does go insane in the books. 2) No you wouldn't like to see Arya go insane, but it'd be an interesting character growth.

I agree with all that, except for the bit about being LF's apprentice! Unless, that is, they decide to completely de-creepify Littlefinger's character. They could, I suppose.

Have you read AFFC?

[The Bloody Boar]

So? 1. Nobody thought Luke was an evil bastard when he chopped of Vaders' hand, and Vader arguably deserved to die less than Tywin did.

Hell no. Tyrion killing Tywin was the final thread that needed to be cut, he'd gone from being a small boy terrified of this giant of an abusive father to taking control of his destiny, when he killed his father he cut off all his loyalty to the Lannisters, he should know exactly what he's doing. Plus if he doesn't know what he's doing he won't get what is one of the best lines in all of fiction imo:

"Now if you could be so kind as to die, I have somewhere to be."

1) Arya arguably does go insane in the books. 2) 2. No you wouldn't like to see Arya go insane, but it'd be an interesting character growth.

3. Have you read AFFC?

1. Fail. Luke first refuses to fight, then only fights to protect his sister, then decides not to fight, then tries his best to save his father. No comparison.

2. Watching someone you care about go insane is 'interesting'??

3. Fair point, but this thread is about things we want to change from the books, and it so happens that one change I so want to see is a lot of hostile thoughts about LF replacing those 'my-wise-clever-substitute-father' thoughts in Sansa's head. But that's assuming the LF in the show stays as creepy as the LF in the books - perhaps they might de-creepify him.

[The Bloody Boar]

I'd like to see Robb's scenes while taking on The Westerlings. Not so much the actual battle but the planning and him falling for Jeyne.

I agree. We need to see Robb and Jeyne falling in love.

[Kadence]

Almost no viewer is going to lose sympathy for Tyrion because he kills Tywin, I just can't see them doing that. Most viewers are going to absolutely hate Tywin by that point and probably be happy Tyrion does him in. Especially since by that time the full extent of the Tysha story will be revealed, and of course the Red Wedding. Viewers will be horrified by Tywin.

He is not comparable to Vader - the worst thing Vader did was kill the younglings, which is something Luke (and viewers) never even knew about. From the POV of Luke, the reason he initially loathed Vader was Vader killing his dad, which obviously when he finds out the truth he doesn't hate him anymore. Luke realizes he was just Obi-Wan and Yoda's puppet, and decides to write his own story by trying to redeem a man who they considered unredeemable.

Luke realizes that Vader isn't the "Big Bad" and just the Emperor's tool, a former hero who lost his way. Whereas Tywin is very much the "Big Bad", a completely monstrous man who was never heroic, and no one knows this more than Tyrion.

Plus as stated, it's very important that Tyrion is not out of control at all - rather, that's he's in complete control and knows exactly what he's doing. In the books he kills Tywin in a very cold and ruthless way. And it's very defining of his character, and extremely important that it happens this way. Only later on does it begin to eat away at him and twist his soul.

2. Watching someone you care about go insane is 'interesting'??

Yes it can be. Plus it's arguable this isn't even really a change - I wouldn't call her insane, but I would call her a borderline serial killer. I don't think you need to change anything from the books to show that something is off with Arya and her low regard for human life, while still having her remain sympathetic.

3. Fair point, but this thread is about things we want to change from the books, and it so happens that one change I so want to see is a lot of hostile thoughts about LF replacing those 'my-wise-clever-substitute-father' thoughts in Sansa's head. But that's assuming the LF in the show stays as creepy as the LF in the books - perhaps they might de-creepify him.

I don't think they intend to de-creepify him. I think they'll stay true to him brainwashing Sansa, and add dialogue which shows how Sansa does indeed view him as her clever substitute dad as you say - which then creepifies his molestation further.

In fact I'm not even sure how you could de-creepify his behavior with Sansa without completely changing the story? His lust for her is an integral part of LF's character, and a motive for a lot of his actions and plots. I think this will be a very important arc in the show, since if anything it appears they intend to expand LF's onscreen presence compared to the books.

I agree. We need to see Robb and Jeyne falling in love.

Indeed we do, and it should be a very emotional scene with him finding out about his brothers' "deaths". Would humanize Robb very much - and make everything that follows even more tragic. And since it's HBO, I fully expect nude Jeyne :)

[Chirios]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but get rid of any and all science!zombies.

[The Undead Martyr]

Well, Arya's "insanity" hinges upon the sh*t that she saw in the Riverlands, i.e. the Tickler; he's pretty non-descript, but the sword and "tickle" references in the inn shoul be enough...

Also, the "three deaths" need to stay in; both are "small" roles (the first guy was "killed" only after he related a rape-story!) so wouldn't be too hard to keep in, and IMO those deaths are essential to the FM-death-justice theme pervading her character.

Shagwell and Hoat need to stay in. The "comic" aspect of their characters is the highlight of the Bloody Mummers- explains the name, too- and makes their crimes (and eventual deaths) all the more... dramatic.

"I'm too droll to die!"

I immediately thought of the Joker, there....

[Lord Barristan]

Other than speeding up the storylines in books 4/5 i really hope they don't change too much... some of the stuff they added last season was just terrible like the hunting scene- what was up with that? I heard GRRM discussing it and he said they had used up most of their budget when they filmed that scene- well they should have just scrapped it rather than have some half ass scene with some dudes trudging around in the woods. It was awful, then Renly was yelling about the mad king burning innocent women and children because the "voices in his head told him too"- something he just didn't do (i know he was going to burn down kings landing, but the books make no mention of him burning innocents, he was actually loved by the small folk for giving them peace for so long)

I also hope we have another scene with Jaime and Catelyn where he says "I seldom fling children from tower windows to improve their health" (or something like that) I don't get why they altered that scene, it was probably my favorite in book 2, especially when he talks about how Ned's dad and brother died

I also hated the whole Roz character and every scene she was in, cutting the Blackfish for her was unforgivable.

The scene where Cersei talks abotu having a black haird baby with Robert was also a pointless inclusion

Drogo raping Dany... Not sure why they felt the need to do that, considering how crazy the first episode was for non-book readers, they should have toned that scene down a bit, not ramped it up into a rape.

I did however love some little tweaks and adaptations they made, like Ned watchign Arya train with Syrio, Ned yelling "Baelor" the Same and Jon scenes were touching as well

IMO the first three books should remain practically unchanged

[Kadence]

he was actually loved by the small folk for giving them peace for so long)

I don't remember anything ever being said about Aerys being loved. Perhaps earlier in his reign. But then, the whole thing was that Aerys was jealous Tywin was getting the credit for this, not him.

I also hope we have another scene with Jaime and Catelyn where he says "I seldom fling children from tower windows to improve their health" (or something like that) I don't get why they altered that scene, it was probably my favorite in book 2, especially when he talks about how Ned's dad and brother died

I agree that this scene should have been better. The reason they moved it up is because they need Jaime on-screen - basically Jaime vanishes for an entire book. They can't have one of the major stars of the show off-screen for an entire season. So they have to speed up the Jaime plot. But yeah, they could have adapted that scene better.

I also hated the whole Roz character and every scene she was in, cutting the Blackfish for her was unforgivable.

Blackfish will probably show up later. And yeah, everyone hates Roz, except for the showrunners apparently.

The scene where Cersei talks abotu having a black haird baby with Robert was also a pointless inclusion

Think it was to give more depth to her character, make her more sympathetic, and make a point about the genetics as well (black vs. golden-haired children). I didn't mind this.

Drogo raping Dany... Not sure why they felt the need to do that, considering how crazy the first episode was for non-book readers, they should have toned that scene down a bit, not ramped it up into a rape.

I thought this scene was pretty loyal to the books. Dany had no choice in the matter either in the books or the show.

I did however love some little tweaks and adaptations they made, like Ned watchign Arya train with Syrio, Ned yelling "Baelor" the Same and Jon scenes were touching as well

Agreed.

IMO the first three books should remain practically unchanged

Yes, I wish this were true as well. But, they really do have to have Jaime on-screen more than he was in book two. They probably need to speed up/condense the Dany plot as well. But I hope they don't change much from the first three books.

Books 4 and 5, I would alter a lot of stuff - mainly by just getting rid of it. Too much travelogue and pointless side-stories.

[rezor]

Are there any things - whether it be plot details, character potrayals etc. - that you would actually prefer that the TV show changed from the source material?

The one that stands out to me is the reveal of who sent the assasin after Bran.

(Storm of Swords spoiler)

Joffrey sending the assassin was woefully anti-climactic, and not set up at all, with an unsatisfactory motive. They could probably find a better candidate and a more satisfying motive.

That is one plot detail where I think the TV show could improve upon from the books. It wouldn't be hard to change it, nor should changing this detail affect anything in the future. It's pretty much a stand-alone detail.

What events or characterizations would you like for the show to modify?

Definitely find a new silent assassin for Bran - for all the time they spent on pondering the dagger and Cat's event catyclamistic kidnapping of Tyrion, it turns out to be....Joffrey? Even Cersei would be a better bet.

Have Arya reach the Wall in once piece. I won't spoil incase not everyone here's read the novels but I really don't think 90 percent of her journeys are that meaningful - GRRM could've covered the stuff involved with a few various POVs. Add to that it's exruciatingly frustrating when she stays silent when Northmen ride past. Are no Stark children allowed to be in the same vicinity as eachother, barring Rickon and Bran?

Include a scene where Cat observes Jon doing something nice; maybe saying a heartfelt farewell to Bran on his own, and having a flicker of remorse cross her face, to remind us that she's not completely etched from stone. Yes, she hates him; her precious Ned laid with someone else. But I find it impossible to believe a mother could despise a child so consistently when she's half raising him herself. Neither book or TV show has portrayed Jon in any other way that is not honourable, brotherly and nice either. Surely part of her grew to love him, however begrudgingly.

HAVE NED STAY IN WINTERFELL. Or take up Cersei's offer to go back before he confronts her with his 'news'. Yes, being silly here, but ^**&^*&^*&.