Tyrion as a Targaryen

[Éadaoin]

God I hope not.

[The Mother of The Others]

We have a problem of riches. The three Lannister "siblings", if siblings they are, ALL work well as secret Targaryens AND as Lannisters. So it's tough to decide which I'd prefer them to be. I like the scenario in which Tyrion is the targ and the twins are Tywin's. And I equally like the scenario in which the twins are the targs and Tyrion is Tywin's only true offspring. It'd kind of be funny if all 3 were King Arys' seed, so Tywin actually had no kids, just as the horns were put on King Robert.

[Cas Stark]

I originally and for a long time dismissed the idea of Tyrion as a secret targ [there are too many alleged secret Targaryens already], especially with what his aunt, Genna said about him being the true son of Tywin, I took this for absolute proof that he was a Lannister and son of Tywin.

But, the more I've thought about it, I can't see how GRRM can get out of Tyrion being a kinslayer unless Tywin wasn't really his father, and since I don't believe GRRM has it in him to give Tyrion a tragic ending, I am now leaning toward the idea that he may be a secret Targaryen afterall because that is the only way he isn't doomed for killing his father. I will be incredibly disappointed if he IS a secret targ, but seems a good chance, otherwise he has to die at the end and I don't see that happenening. GRRM will kill of Dany or Jon Snow before he kills Tyrion.

[Woman of War]

We have a problem of riches. The three Lannister "siblings", if siblings they are"................

They are siblings, for sure they all are Joanna's children.

@Cas Stark:

And why is Tyion doomed if he killed his real father?

He may have a problem of being accepted in Westerosi society and hierarchy, especially as Lord of CR but even this depends of the power situation after all is said and done.

Only maybe Tyrion has found a better purpose in life and he might travel the world or live at a remote place with people he likes, earning his living with cultivating wine and olives. Tuscany? Cappadokia? Crete? Arbor? Asshai, the wonders of the world?

Or do you mean he is doomed on a meta level since Martin absolutely cannot tolerate sinners and let him stay alive as kinslayer? Well, Martin can do what ever he wants, it's his story and there is no black and white morality as in arithmetics of redemption in it.

[tyrionsparamour]

I thought this for a very long time but lets face it tyrion is a lannister

I think tywins haterd comes from tyrion being so much like him but tyrion has

no shame in his faults nor cares how ppl think of him. Tywin on the other

Hand worries about how everyone looks at him and his family im totally

with the theory that tywin was the hand that visited brothels and had the tunnel

Made to hide his whoring it all goes back to being ur fathers son tytos

was weak when it came to women and so is Tywin and tryion

To sum it up not only was tryion an imp but he was smart funny dreaming whore and tywin couldn't stand that

[Harlaw's Book]

I don't Tyrion is a Targ, but I do think Tywin thinks Tyrion is Aerys' son.

[AZMohamed]

Evidence: (for)

-"Lank (straight) white blonde hair" while the Lannisters have curly, golden or sandy blond hair. In westeros, they might think it's his "dwarfenetics" or so to speak changed his hair but modern science tells us that dwarfism wouldn't change hair color

-The "Black" eye could be very dark purple and keep in my mind that not only is Tyrion very short that few people would look eye to eye with him, bad lighting in westeros at night as well as the fact that people consider him grotesque and would really look at him much anyways.

-"Morbid fascination with dragons," having dragon dreams, wanting a dragon, finding the dragon skulls beautiful and feeling they way they liked the fire, "...sometimes set fires in the bowels of casterly rock and stare at them for hours sometimes pretending they were dragon fire and that it would burn lord tywin and Cersei."

-Ser Barristan saying that he took certain liberties with Johanna during the bedding and said it was a shame that the lord's right to the first night had been abolished.

-"You are no son of mine"

[Theda Baratheon]

I hate this theory so much.

[Lord_Tyrell]

I can't think of a theory I hate more than this.

[Woman of War]

I hate this theory so much.

I can't think of a theory I hate more than this.

So I have read several arguments supporting and several against this theory. i myself am quite open and favor neither side.

You can be of different opinions BUT please explain to me why you HATE this theory so much. Would it not be enough to simply disagree? Why so much emotional investment for one or the other side???

[Khal Rhaggat - Cart King]

I'm torn on this. I think it could be true, but am not necessarily sold yet as we just don't have enough evidence to say one way or the other...

[Newstar]

GRRM will kill of Dany or Jon Snow before he kills Tyrion.

Hahaha, it may come to that, knowing GRRM. (I do think Tyrion will probably fail to survive the series, though.)

[chrisdaw]

I've gone back and forth on this one in my head. Tywin seems to be one of the most unknown characters. Most everything we "know" about him comes from various unreliable narrator perspectives. Martin has placed plenty of hints that give readers cause to question if Tywin is the person people believe him to be. So if details like Joanna and Tywin being in love are true, Tyrion being a Targ is far less likely. If Joanna never loved Tywin and actually enjoyed being the object of a King's desire then Tyrion being a Targ is far more likely. Remember Joanna was at court since she was a girl and knew Aerys well before she married Tywin. We know nothing about her or what she thought of Aerys or Tywin. Every bit of information we have about her comes through the prism of Tywin admirers.

Perceptive post, but we do have a few (very few) little gems about Joanna. She taught Cersei that tears were a woman's weapon, she was thought of by the people and those close to hold sway over Tywin, she planned to marry off her children herself and she was unhappy with Cersei and Jaime experimenting, making an effort to prevent further occurrences.

[cooper56]

One worst theory's that has come up i hate this one very much. To many secret targaryen's... I think only one that would make sense is john.

[TalalOfDorne]

I have said this before, but even though I dont like this theory, there are just too many hints to deny its possibility

[BunsenHoneydew]

hello, have been reading this thread with great interest. Not wishing to argue the evidence for or against the Lannister twins being secret Targaryens, but if so, it would make Jaime Lannister a kinslayer in addition to a kingslayer...

[Newstar]

On the Westeros.org Twitter very recently, there was a reference to GRRM ending one fan theory with the stroke of a pen in A World of Ice and Fire (meaning that GRRM had definitively debunked the theory in canon in the to-be-published World of Ice and Fire), and the poster adding "*Glee*" at the end. Could the Tyrion = secret Targ be that theory?

[The Night's Prince]

Who bumped this terrible thread?

[bent branch]

On the Westeros.org Twitter very recently, there was a reference to GRRM ending one fan theory with the stroke of a pen in A World of Ice and Fire (meaning that GRRM had definitively debunked the theory in canon in the to-be-published World of Ice and Fire), and the poster adding "*Glee*" at the end. Could the Tyrion = secret Targ be that theory?

Yes, it obviously could be. Was there something that made you think of this theory specifically? There are so many fan theories that are hated by someone, I was just wondering what made you think of this one in particular. Curiosity is killing me. Dang book isn't due out until end of October (grumble, grumble, grumble).

[Ser Creighton]

Yes, it obviously could be. Was there something that made you think of this theory specifically? There are so many fan theories that are hated by someone, I was just wondering what made you think of this one in particular. Curiosity is killing me. Dang book isn't due out until end of October (grumble, grumble, grumble).

Well I doubt theories like this one get debunked given the type of book it is.

Historical overview, maybe we find out when Dawn was made and it gets debunked as Lightbringer.

Targaryen family tree, I doubt any secrets get reealed here, just a clearer picture of who married who. Perhaps the theory that the Starks have Targaryen blood gets debunked.

Maps. Perhaps the theory of the Dragon has three heads being the continents gets debunked.

A large number of heraldry is being added. The theories on certian sigils is probably get crushed.

The theory even being aknowledged suggests it is a well known theory. Not sure if they would come and say hey someone was wrong about a sigil, as if it mattered.

My guess is either the Starks/targ blood theory or Dawn/Lightbringer theory.