Tyrion as a Targaryen

[Newstar]

Here's the offending tweet, from Westeros.org:

And so with a few words in the World of Ice and Fire, a theory comes to an ignominious end at the hands of #GRRM. #ASoIaF #Glee

"Ignominious end" sounds like the theory in question is an old theory that no one can definitively disprove but that has never been confirmed, either. Without knowing specifically what would make the Westeros.org folks happy to have debunked, Tyrion as a secret Targ seems like one of those old theories that just won't die, so having GRRM shut the Tyrion = Targ theory down for sure would probably lead them to express glee over same.

Other possible candidates, though, in terms of popular fan theories, or at least the ones that get replayed on the boards:

1. Septa Lemore is Ashara Dayne/Lyanna/Tyene Sand's mother

2. Cersei and Jaime are secret Targs

3. The Hound is the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle

4. Aegon's a fake

5. Syrio Forel was Jaqen

6. Darkstar is Brandon and Ashara's love child

7. Loras Tyrell wasn't really disfigured by boiling oil

8. The Sailor's Wife is Tysha

9. Sweetrobin is Petyr's son (the theory that Sansa is Petyr's biological daughter by Cat also pops up occasionally)

10. Oberyn poisoned Tywin

11. Alleras is Sarella Sand

There are probably more, but those are the top theories that spring to mind. I'm not counting R+L=J, obviously, since I'm pretty sure that's not something GRRM's going to be debunking anytime soon. I don't really see anything in this list that a devoted fan would be happy to see debunked, though.

[bent branch]

Well I doubt theories like this one get debunked given the type of book it is.

Historical overview, maybe we find out when Dawn was made and it gets debunked as Lightbringer.

Targaryen family tree, I doubt any secrets get reealed here, just a clearer picture of who married who. Perhaps the theory that the Starks have Targaryen blood gets debunked.

Maps. Perhaps the theory of the Dragon has three heads being the continents gets debunked.

A large number of heraldry is being added. The theories on certian sigils is probably get crushed.

The theory even being aknowledged suggests it is a well known theory. Not sure if they would come and say hey someone was wrong about a sigil, as if it mattered.

My guess is either the Starks/targ blood theory or Dawn/Lightbringer theory.

I agree with you that theories relating to major plot points won't be given away in a book like WOIAF. In fact, I would be kind of annoyed if they were. However, what if a theory is based on a misinterpretation of the text. I'll use myself as an example of what I mean. I believe that there is an 80% chance that Tyrion will turn out to be Aerys' bastard. I think there are little hints in all five books that this is true. However... All people are subject to confirmation bias, including myself. What if, as some people think, these hints are not really hints at all; what if GRRM never even contemplated making Tyrion Aerys' bastard? Then all the hints I think I see in the text would be really nothing. Then the WOIAF could have a story like Tywin and Joanna spent the year leading to Tyrion's conception on a romantic tour of the Free Cities. This information would destroy the A+J=T theory, but it wouldn't be revealing a major plot point because A+J=T was never a plot point in the first place. Your ideas about what else could be the theories debunked are also good ones. I don't really have any ideas about what theory might be debunked because there are just too many to choose from. But I love to hear other people's ideas.

[King of Hats]

Out of the theories listed, I think if George debunks any one, it will be a Syrio one.

[bent branch]

Here's the offending tweet, from Westeros.org:

"Ignominious end" sounds like the theory in question is an old theory that no one can definitively disprove but that has never been confirmed, either. Without knowing specifically what would make the Westeros.org folks happy to have debunked, Tyrion as a secret Targ seems like one of those old theories that just won't die, so having GRRM shut the Tyrion = Targ theory down for sure would probably lead them to express glee over same.

Other possible candidates, though, in terms of popular fan theories, or at least the ones that get replayed on the boards:

1. Septa Lemore is Ashara Dayne/Lyanna/Tyene Sand's mother

2. Cersei and Jaime are secret Targs

3. The Hound is the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle

4. Aegon's a fake

5. Syrio Forel was Jaqen

6. Darkstar is Brandon and Ashara's love child

7. Loras Tyrell wasn't really disfigured by boiling oil

8. The Sailor's Wife is Tysha

9. Sweetrobin is Petyr's son (the theory that Sansa is Petyr's biological daughter by Cat also pops up occasionally)

10. Oberyn poisoned Tywin

11. Alleras is Sarella Sand

There are probably more, but those are the top theories that spring to mind. I'm not counting R+L=J, obviously, since I'm pretty sure that's not something GRRM's going to be debunking anytime soon. I don't really see anything in this list that a devoted fan would be happy to see debunked, though.

Thank you for your response. It must have posted while I was answering Ser Creighton. As I can't claim any special knowledge about what would make Westeros.org folks happy, I still have no real guess as to what the theory might be. However, as I pointed out to Ser Creighton, I doubt anything will be revealed in AWOIAF that is a major plot point. But, if Tyrion being (or not being) Aerys' bastard isn't a major plot point then I don't see any problem with it being debunked in AWOIAF. Ah, my curiosity is still killing me. :huh:

[Newstar]

Out of the theories listed, I think if George debunks any one, it will be a Syrio one.

That's not an exhaustive list, those are just the ones that seem to come up pretty often as fan theories. The way the tweet reads, though, I get the impression that this is a long-standing theory that forum posters have tried debunking before, to no avail, so it would likely be something from AGOT-ASOS, as opposed to some of the later theories (Septa Lemore's identity, for one). Syrio would fit the bill.

[KingSnakeDoc]

Not to reopen this wound, but I wanted to add one thought that I had.

If Jon is truly the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, there's a connection that may suggest that Tyrion is the third head of the dragon and a Targ.

Danaerys, Jon and Tyrion would be the three characters whose mothers died while giving birth to them. Perhaps it's just a coincidence, but I do not think it is likely with GRRM. Thoughts?

[Danelle]

Not to reopen this wound, but I wanted to add one thought that I had.

If Jon is truly the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, there's a connection that may suggest that Tyrion is the third head of the dragon and a Targ.

Danaerys, Jon and Tyrion would be the three characters whose mothers died while giving birth to them. Perhaps it's just a coincidence, but I do not think it is likely with GRRM. Thoughts?

Well, I think that at some point it was suggested that the three heads of the dragon do not necessarily have to be Targaryens. if Tyrion is indeed the child of Aerys, then he is neither a Targaryen, nor a Lannister. He is a Hill or a Waters.

[KingSnakeDoc]

But it's about the blood not the name. Same with Jon.

[Kienn]

Either Tyrion is a Targ: Tyrion and Jaime killed each other's fathers or Jaime is a Targ: they each killed their own fathers.

Either way they'll have a big laugh about it.

[l3ol3o]

If he was a Targ how would we find out?

This is my problem with this Theory. Everyone that would seem to know the truth is dead. I think it would be pretty weak if some new character appeared out of the blue at the end of the series and says "Surprise! Your a Targ Tyrion!"

Although maybe Ser Barristan knows? He would have known what was going on at this time and it's very likely that Tyrion will meet up with him soon enough. Maybe Tyrion will interact with the Dragons in a way that confirms suspicions Barristan may have.

[Targaryen King]

If Tyrion is a secret Targ i gonna vomit

Same, Tyrion being a Targ would be the biggest disappointment of this entire series for me. Plus if he's the third head of the dragon (regardless of lineage) it would be ridiculous. I love Tyrion but he gets such favoritism it was so obvious to me that he was GRRMs favorite from my first read through that putting him in control of a dragon/s would be completely absurd.

[The Red Hand]

This is my problem with this Theory. Everyone that would seem to know the truth is dead. I think it would be pretty weak if some new character appeared out of the blue at the end of the series and says "Surprise! Your a Targ Tyrion!"

Although maybe Ser Barristan knows? He would have known what was going on at this time and it's very likely that Tyrion will meet up with him soon enough. Maybe Tyrion will interact with the Dragons in a way that confirms suspicions Barristan may have.

Tyrion claimed to know why the dragons liked Brown Ben, right? Maybe you need some valyrian blood to get that reaction. If Tyrion meets the dragons and they inexplicably fawn over him he may be able to put the pieces together himself. He figured out Aegon and Jon's secret identites after all.

[Woman of War]

Same, Tyrion being a Targ would be the biggest disappointment of this entire series for me. Plus if he's the third head of the dragon (regardless of lineage) it would be ridiculous. I love Tyrion but he gets such favoritism it was so obvious to me that he was GRRMs favorite from my first read through that putting him in control of a dragon/s would be completely absurd.

I think you exaggerate a little.

We should realize that we forum posters are only a tiny, tiny minority among all readers of Martin. And there are by now the fans of the series as well. I guess only the smallest part of all those even considers the possibility of Jon as Rhaegar's and Lyanna's son. Even far less realize there is any possibility of Tyrion being half Targaeryen. But many will be aware of the possibility that Aegon is not what he claims to be. The average reader who simply reads, follows and enjoys can so far hardly be fed up with "secret Targs". And this normal average reader is the target audience for Martin as for any author, not we dedicated infatuated fans within any forum who know better than the author how the plot is supposed to be.

And "Tyrion is a Targaeryen" as favoritism? How so?? Tyrion would be a bastard child with no claim and no inheritance, not to Casterly Rock nor to the Throne. And there is no one who could legitimise him. Even if he were legitimized his claim came after that of Rhaegar's children - if there are any left. He would though come before Daenerys since he is male and older. But as I said, he would be a bastard and would have no claim at all. Who, apart from the one with the claim to the title, could legitimize a bastard?

And if only we readers, Tyrion himself and the person who tells know that Tyrion has Targaeryen blood? Where is the advantage for Tyrion? He has not killed his father by blood but anyone else sees the kinslayer in him, even Jaime, the one who counts for Tyrion. Would that make him able to control the dragons? Couldn't he control a dragon by his knowledge? Or would any ability to deal with those glorious weapons of mass destruction only enable Tyrion to destroy them in the end when they become a threat to mankind? Imagime the tragedy: Tyrion finally is the one to destroy that about what he has always dreamt, his big grandiose fantasy.

No, if Tyrion were half Targaeryen I would not see much favoritism from Martin's side. The character Tyrion may become even more important in the books but the imaginary person Tyrion would probably not be happier for it and his odds to die at eighty, with a belly full of wine would not be bigger than as Tywin's son by blood.

[Morienthar]

Just putting this out there.....

There are two know characters with two different colors in their eyes.

1.Tyrion Lannister.

2.Shiera Seastar.

[Ser Greg of House House]

He's better off as a Lannister - making him a Targaryen would be a really lame twist.

This is as true now as it was 2 years ago, but unfortunately I think the theory makes a lot of sense. I believe Tyrion, Dany and Jon are the three heads, a lot of parallels between them etc.

I don't like it, but...

[Angmar]

Eeeh, dunno. First Jon and then Aegon and then people start saying Jaime and Cersei are secret Targaryens and sooner or later it'll be revealed that the Stark kids are also half Targaryen.

[Beorn Snow]

1. Septa Lemore is Ashara Dayne/Lyanna/Tyene Sand's mother

2. Cersei and Jaime are secret Targs

3. The Hound is the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle

4. Aegon's a fake

5. Syrio Forel was Jaqen

6. Darkstar is Brandon and Ashara's love child

7. Loras Tyrell wasn't really disfigured by boiling oil

8. The Sailor's Wife is Tysha

9. Sweetrobin is Petyr's son (the theory that Sansa is Petyr's biological daughter by Cat also pops up occasionally)

10. Oberyn poisoned Tywin

11. Alleras is Sarella Sand

At least one of these theories is bound to be true. Heck, two at bare minimum even.

[Yukle]

At least one of these theories is bound to be true. Heck, two at bare minimum even.

Or even none. Some of them are only assumed because people have argued them for so long that they've forgotten they began as wild speculation with only weak evidence.

[Guest]

I don't think Tyrion is a Targeryen, but I do think he's a Chimera (not the mythological monster, the genetic condition), which would explain the green and black eyes.

[Yukle]

I don't think Tyrion is a Targeryen, but I do think he's a Chimera (not the mythological monster, the genetic condition), which would explain the green and black eyes.

... I'm not sure if you're joking. But I don't mean that mockingly, what makes you think that?