Tyrion as a Targaryen

[lstwrkvy]

damn! interesting topic man.

[Cer Tarl]

I think the show has confirmed this rumor for us. Unfortunately one of the many to come

[Hangover of the Morning]

I think the show has confirmed this rumor for us. Unfortunately one of the many to come

??? If anything the show smashed this (IMO ridiculous) theory into pieces.

[Overlord of Skagos]

It dosent matter if Tyrion is indeed a Targ...He has been brought up all his life as a proud Lannister...he 'pays his debts' more than any other Lannister in this series. If hes gonna end up ruling and making decisions ..it will still be heavily influenced by his Lannister principles..I really dont think Tyrion would scream "I'll take what is mine with fire and blood arrrrgh!!! ".... Being a targ is just a name for him...hes a true Lannister!

[Yukle]

It dosent matter if Tyrion is indeed a Targ...He has been brought up all his life as a proud Lannister...he 'pays his debts' more than any other Lannister in this series. If hes gonna end up ruling and making decisions ..it will still be heavily influenced by his Lannister principles..I really dont think Tyrion would scream "I'll take what is mine with fire and blood arrrrgh!!! ".... Being a targ is just a name for him...hes a true Lannister!

I'm not so sure that it doesn't matter. If it turns out that Tyrion killed a man who isn't his father then it undoes the entire climax of his life. It goes from being a tale of a man always punished by a discriminating father who later exacts revenge on him for a hatred he had no control over... to a tale of two unrelated men, one of whom shot the other one day.

[chrisdaw]

I doubt the climax of Tyrion's life happened in book 3.

[Teal'c]

I don't Tyrion is a Targ, but I do think Tywin thinks Tyrion is Aerys' son.

Agree.

[Belisarius09]

No, Tyrion is not a secret Targ. This is the crackpot theory I hate more than anything else. I'd rather read a "Syrio Forell is alive!" thread, or a "Jeyne Westerling is alive, pregnant and escaped with the Blackfish!" thread. Please no mre secret Targs. Don't ruin Tyrion for me.

Genna Lannister said it best, Tyrion is Tywinn's son, as much as he refuses to admit it.

[Morienthar]

"Jeyne Westerling is alive, pregnant and escaped with the Blackfish!" thread.

She is more than likely alive,not pregnant and escaped with Blackfish.

[Yukle]

Genna Lannister said it best, Tyrion is Tywinn's son, as much as he refuses to admit it.

Yep, I agree. Tyrion and Tywin both imagine slights as much as they receive them genuinely. They have their own sorts of pride that others don't completely understand and yet are punished for not following. They both excel at manipulating people and anticipating their actions. They're both ruthless to the point of violence (in their own ways) and they have both harboured a dislike (almost hatred) for the members of their family they don't like more than anyone else.

This is why Tyrion's decision to murder Tywin is the pinnacle of Tyrion's story. And it wouldn't matter nearly as much any more to the story if he wasn't Tywin's son.

[Newstar]

I think the show has confirmed this rumor for us. Unfortunately one of the many to come

Do you mean Tywin's anecdote telling Tyrion "I let you live and raised you as my son" (or similar)? Because I always interpreted that as "I let you live and raised you as my son as opposed to sending you away under an assumed name, locking you up Man in the Iron Mask-style, doing a baby swap with another baby passing you off as someone else's child, etc. etc." and not as "I let you live and raised you as if you were my son," which makes no sense in context.

There's also the end part of the quote "I let you live and raised you as my son because you're a Lannister." Doesn't that say it all, really? I mean, yes, Tyrion would still technically be half-Lannister were he fathered by a Targ, but Tywin wouldn't call him a Lannister if that were the case.

[Anderson Homeu]

hes not targ, i believe he is a child of the forest if anything :dunce:

maybe im wrong here, but cersi was mad at tryion because he told on her at age nine for having a guard beat a little girl for stealing necklace. then it says they are nine years apart i believe.. so that means tyrion was tattling when he was an infant.. :dunno:

[Danielsnag]

I believe it would be much more interesting if Jamie/Cersei were bastard Targs, and Tyrion was Tywins only true child. Would effectively show that all Tywin could father is something that he considers a monstrosity, and at the same time turn Jamie and Cersei's elitist attitude on its head.

I highly doubt either theory is true though. 99% they are all Lanniters.

[Woman of War]

This is why Tyrion's decision to murder Tywin is the pinnacle of Tyrion's story. And it wouldn't matter nearly as much any more to the story if he wasn't Tywin's son.

The pinnacle of Tyrion's story will be when he has finally freed himself of being Tywin's son as defining identity.

When he is able to be himself, not consumed by revenge and a destructive craving for Casterly rock.

"My father would have poisoned the wells."

Would Tyrion? There lies his future identity!

The irony is that he may though get the Rock when he has grown beyond wanting it at all costs.

But to make an arc like that meaningful Tyrion should be Tywin's son. There is really no reason why he should not be a dragon rider though, actually breaking all that "blood" determinism would be another nice aspect of a story development like that.

[Maia]

If it turns out that Tyrion killed a man who isn't his father then it undoes the entire climax of his life. It goes from being a tale of a man always punished by a discriminating father who later exacts revenge on him for a hatred he had no control over... to a tale of two unrelated men, one of whom shot the other one day.

This is such a bizarre argument - do you honestly think that once Jon learns that he is not Ned's son, Ned will become just some dude to him and his influence on Jon will be nullified and forgotten?! Don't you remember how Jon Arryn, no blood relation to Ned, was clearly the strongest "fatherly" influence on him?

Whether biological son or not, Tywin was the only father Tyrion ever knew. He was a mentor, protector and tormentor all in one and if he had known that Tyrion wasn't really his, it would make his character retroactively more complex.

_And_ it would make Tyrion's situation more complex, because instead of Tywin simply denying him parental affection that he owed to his child... well. Tyrion would, to certain degree, owe Tywin, even despite the abuse. This would make the murder worse, not better.

There is really no reason why he should not be a dragon rider though, actually breaking all that "blood" determinism would be another nice aspect of a story development like that.

No, it would be an idiot plot. Valyrian dragonlords and later Targs practiced incest, despite it's drawbacks, for a reason. Aerys and Rhaella were married - on the strength of a greenseer's prophecy! for a reason. Nobody except for Valyrian dragonlords being able to tame the dragons also happened for a reason. "Oh, fooled you! Blood is not actually important and all these people were merely dumb !" Would just feel cheap at that stage and open tons of plot-holes. IMHO, YMMV.

[The Old Tongue]

I'll say that I don't really want to see Tyrion revealed as a Targaryen but there is some weight to the theory. The mismatched eye, while not the true Targaryen purple, does seem to hint that there's more to Tyrion's lineage (and perhaps the platinum blonde hair rather than gold). It's possible that the jealous Aerys bedded Joanna and put a son in her: a son Tywin would be reluctant to make an heir to Casterly Rock. But these arguments have been repeated quite often in this thread.

A couple things I've noticed that haven't been mentioned yet though...

- Tyrion is the name of a historic dragon, as mentioned by the Imp himself (I forget in which book/chapter this is mentioned, I'd like to say it's in Illyrio's presence).

- Tyrion's mother does not survive childbirth. This is a theme we've seen twice so far concerning Targaryens, though one instance is still speculative. If you buy into the Rhaegar+Lyanna=Jon theory we have Rhaegar + a nonTarg's pregnancy resulting in death. Dany + nonTarg Drogo results in a stillborn Rhaego, though black magic has been blamed *. Martin has stated throughout the series that Targs were notorious for incest and perhaps there's good reason for this. One could dispute this by mentioning Rhaegar's children with Elia of Dorne, but we learn through Quentyn Martell that his family has the blood of the dragon.

-Tyrion seems somewhat impervious to disease. He avoids Greyscale while wrestling with an afflicted man, yet Griff has less contact to the disease and contracts it. Also, Tyrion is exposed to Pale Mare and is fine, though Jorah and Penny seem to be ok for now. Is there any mention to the Targaryens being resistant to disease? Again, this is highly speculative.

*if it is that a successful Targaryen birth is hinged on the nonTarg party having blood of the dragon, then it would explain why Illyrio was comfortable giving Dany to Drogo, knowing there would be no heir (assuming they knew Viserys would never pan out). They would simply wait for the new Aegon to mature before arranging a new nuptial.

[houseHB]

Tyrion as a Targ is just a red herring for Jaime and Cersei.

[The Old Tongue]

and I like that theory even less. I understand the notion, Jaime is (was) a great warrior, is fast becoming a great political/military mind (Rhaegar), and finally seems to be absolved of being a Lannister. Cersei is the other side of the coin, mad and paranoid, even showing a lust for wildfire. My problem with this theory is we don't gain one Targaryen like we would with Tyrion, we gain FIVE new Targaryens (counting Joff, Tomm, and Myrcella). I'll admit that Joff definitely had some Mad King Aerys in him, Myrcella's cyvasse skills seem to hint to something, and Tommen...well Tommen is with kittens the way Dany is with slaves.

I just think this theory would muddy the plot up a bit. Though if it is accurate I don't doubt GRRM can pull it off

[Dany Girl]

Tyrion's dreams are not "dragon dreams". They're simply dreams about dragons, and riding dragons. "Dragon dreams" are prophet dreams. Tyrion as far I can remember has never had a prophetic dream. I'm sure many people dream of riding dragons, therefore I don't think that counts.

heterochromia is when someone has 2 different colored eyes. Targaryens are not the only family to have this in Westros as Euron also has it. Hell, my dad has it, is he a secret Targ?

White blonde hair in the middle of black hair also doesn't really mean anything. Tommen has white blonde hair, also, blonde next to black may look paler than normal. Or it could just be that hair is lacking any pigment due to thyroid issues from dwarfism (grey hair can be thyroid related).

[WildBlood]

I think the show has confirmed this rumor for us. Unfortunately one of the many to come

The show means absolutely ZERO to the books.