Ygritte Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Poor Ser Patrek. Torn apart just to fulfill a prophecy. "Under a bleeding star"...Ha, you're right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrone Biggums Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 So I bought this book and was just flipping through pages when saw "I didn't even feel the 4th dagger" made me go OMFG and read the last few pages...And now I'm here - I don't think Jons dead..I like some of the above theories, but the one about Jon's dream of him fighting the Others on the wall seems to point in the direction that he is the PTWP. GRRM is all about these little dreams and such - and this one is a blatant foreshadowing no?PS. Best bet would be Mel bringing him back with the kiss - no one knowing he's back he can go out alone and do what he must..But now we must wait another so odd years for the next one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywarpgold Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Poor Ser Patrek. Torn apart just to fulfill a prophecy. "Under a bleeding star"...I totally missed that aspect, but I think you're right too!As for Mormont's bird, I think it was Bran who was slipping into it by the end of the book, based on the the time when instead of just saying "Snow," it started saying "Jon Snow, Jon Snow," which Jon noted as being very odd. I also think that it's been Bran who was whispering Theon's name whenever he was in the godswood, which leads me to believe that Bran has already advanced passed viewing only past events, and can now keep tabs on the present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misanthrope Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 PS. Best bet would be Mel bringing him back with the kiss - no one knowing he's back he can go out alone and do what he must..But now we must wait another so odd years for the next one... The whole bringing people back from the dead with the kiss of fire has become every bit as trite, if not more so, as protagonists dying in this series. Martin should have ended the series with aSoS, the last 2 volumes have been unmitigated disasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 By the by, Linda and I think that maybe the Prince that was Promised and Azor Ahai Reborn are two separate and conflated prophecies. Maybe Jon's AA Reborn, and Dany is the PtwP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 That could make sense now, I guess. Dany has a foretold destiny, or might have had a foretold destiny if she had chosen to stay in Meereen. And Jon always has been a good candidate as well. Remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygritte Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I just hope he is either revived by Mel or he somehow survives (or its the biggest curve ball ever and he really is dead-dead). I don't want to have to read a couple dozen chapters over the next 2 books where Jon's just hanging out in Ghost the entire time.I too picked up on the Salt/Tears thing. Also one could argue that his oath to the Night's Watch was really all that Jon had anymore, and he was sacrificing it when announcing that he would march on Ramsay; and Mel did say AA had to make a major sacrifice to forge Lightbringer.I just hope his sacrifice doesn't have to be Ghost or Arya or anyone else I like. :worried: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zezibesh Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Poor Ser Patrek. Torn apart just to fulfill a prophecy. "Under a bleeding star"...Why did I not notice thisOh god it's so obvious now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stark for Life Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Ah well now that just makes my day. Jon did need a way out of his oaths as a black brother. Now I do not think he would abandon the wall, maybe take command of the wildlings. But at least he is no longer bound to the wall.....part of me thinks Jon is Danny's "mount to love" even though I am not a fan of her. But you never know with GRRM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling North Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Jon will be fine, I'm still not sold on him and Dany, but Jon himself I think will be fine. His direwolf is still around and the last thing he said was "Ghost" We've also had plenty of chapters, like in the prologue (especially about the hints to Jon's potential in warging) and Bran's chapters that the setup is well placed. The focus of Jon in Mel's visions is also an indication, and given everything we've learned thus far about fire priest/priestesses.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Question: What the hell was going on with the giant? Did Ser Patrek try to steal Val? I didn't really understand that part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yes, I think so. I think Jon stationed the giant to protect Val. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarl Snow Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Question: What the hell was going on with the giant? Did Ser Patrek try to steal Val? I didn't really understand that part.Ser Patrek did make noises about marrying Val, was told he'd have to "steal" her to make her respect him.. so my guess is he tried to steal her by slaying the giant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling North Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Jon did indeed place him there for that purpose, pretty sure it was a knight that Wun Wun was throwing around, so that's the most likeliest explaination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banditry Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I wonder what the importance of the dead bodies being preserved in the cells might be; any guesses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of Casterly Rock Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 By the by, Linda and I think that maybe the Prince that was Promised and Azor Ahai Reborn are two separate and conflated prophecies. Maybe Jon's AA Reborn, and Dany is the PtwP.I had the same thought after I read that George R. R. Martin has never confirmed that AA Reborn and the PtwP a one person.I can´t believe that Jon is permanently dead. I hope he survives somehow or at least he is retrieved without any loss of his personality. And I hope that his POV-chapters in a Dance with Dragons are not his last.The only positive aspect of his "death" is that he is free of his night watch oath.Another argument against Jons final death is, that George R. R. Martin always anwers something like "keep reading" when he was asked who Jons real mother / parents are. I expect he answers the question in one of the last books. But in my opinion it would make no sense to tell it, after everybody in the story, who would be interested, is dead. So as a Jon-fan I hope he has plot amour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Fick Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Poor Ser Patrek. Torn apart just to fulfill a prophecy. "Under a bleeding star"...Does that make sense? Ser Patrek was included after Martin lost his bet against Pat of Pat's Fantasy Hotlist. He made the knight's sigil a star because that's the symbol of Pat's football team, or am I wrong?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling North Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 By the by, Linda and I think that maybe the Prince that was Promised and Azor Ahai Reborn are two separate and conflated prophecies. Maybe Jon's AA Reborn, and Dany is the PtwP.They have a LOT of similarities that bleed into one another though... dragons chief among them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basileus777 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Does that make sense? Ser Patrek was included after Martin lost his bet against Pat of Pat's Fantasy Hotlist. He made the knight's sigil a star because that's the symbol of Pat's football team, or am I wrong?...Jon being reborn under a bleeding Dallas Cowboys star is pretty amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygritte Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Does that make sense? Ser Patrek was included after Martin lost his bet against Pat of Pat's Fantasy Hotlist. He made the knight's sigil a star because that's the symbol of Pat's football team, or am I wrong?...I'll bet he always planned to have a star incorporated into the scene somehow, and the football bet gave him a clever, inside-jokey way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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