Zezibesh Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Could one of those ice cells be the chink in the Wall where a certain blue flower grows? :idea:This would be almost too straightforward (as the ice cells are carved into the wall, yes?) so for now I'm going to leave it. The corpses being mentioned a couple times and being left in the cells heavily smell of foreshadowing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaitscralt Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I think Jon will be reborn of his own accord because of TPTWP. I don't believe Melisandre knows the Kiss of Life, as what Thoros did was originally a burial/funeral rite and not an intentional spell. She likely has no idea that it even exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Mongoose Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 I think Jon will be reborn of his own accord because of TPTWP. I don't believe Melisandre knows the Kiss of Life, as what Thoros did was originally a burial/funeral rite and not an intentional spell. She likely has no idea that it even exists.Unless Mel perfoms the same burial rites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotcat Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 i don't think jon's death will be a permanent one. As for his rebirth, I think Melisandre will be involved. In the interim, I believe his mind will reside in Ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I don't think Jon will be revived by the kiss, I think it will be that healing thing that was done on Victarion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banditry Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 It seems likely that Jon will either be revived, or else he'll carry on inside Ghost. It surprised me how much it didn't really bother me too much; he should have anticipated this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banditry Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 By the way, has there been any discussion that Jon (and previously Mormont's) raven is a Warg? It struck me that Jon kept saying things like "this bird is too clever by half", etc. The bird seemed to be emphasized pretty heavily in this book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 A lot of people have wondered if Mormont wasn't a mild warg. I've also wondered if maybe its oddity is because of Bloodraven, using it to keep an eye on things on the Wall somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yes, I think Victarion's healing is a pointer too. Which suggests that all of Jon will need to be filled with that fire.I am suspicious it may end up leading to Melisandre using up all of her fire to restore Jon to life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygritte Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yes, I think Victarion's healing is a pointer too. Which suggests that all of Jon will need to be filled with that fire.I am suspicious it may end up leading to Melisandre using up all of her fire to restore Jon to life.I bet you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stark for Life Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Well when I first read about this I wanted the throw my laptop through a window. But then it does make sense for Jon to "die" and remove his vows. I think Mel will revive/heal him. If he wargs into Ghost I think it will only be temporary until Mel heals him. It does seem like he will come back, or he better! The big thing is I hate these multiple year waits until we find out what happens!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Is the red sword in Jon's dream the real lightbringer? Lightbringer was called the "red sword of heroes", that was always the one thing I had doubts about the dragon's being lightbringer, because none of them were red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zezibesh Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 A lot of people have wondered if Mormont wasn't a mild warg. I've also wondered if maybe its oddity is because of Bloodraven, using it to keep an eye on things on the Wall somehow.Ever since I read the first Bloodraven theory I suspected Mormont's crow was there to watch the Lord Commander. Now that the theory is true, I'm 99% certain, excluding divine intervention from He Who Writes Above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Godsgrace Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I don't think Jon will be revived by the kiss, I think it will be that healing thing that was done on Victarion.This didn't occur to me, but I really like this theory. There is a world of difference between being healed and revived after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Well, he could just stay dead. Just as Dany might end up dying of the flux in the Dothraki Sea - no sorcerer healer is going to find her there, I assume. And I don't see her ordering the Dothraki around while dying...Mel seems to be no resurrected R'hllorian to me - she was rather forced to drink the fire at some point during her career. And she still vividly remembers the slave auction at which she was sold, so I'd guess she is not like Beric or Cat.So I guess although it would be fitting for her to sacrifice herself to save Jon, I doubt that this is going to happen. Mel still has no clue that Jon not Stannis might be her savior. Jon could be revived pretty easily. By the kiss of fire, possibly also by this burning stuff Victarion's wound was saved - although I'm not sure if Mel would be there early enough to save a dying Jon this way. He seems to be already dead when the chapter ends. And he is also not consciously in Ghost, either. If he was there, he would feel more that just cold, would he not? Even if Ghost was somewhere were it was pretty cold.Bloodraven and Bran could play a role as well - that is, if Jon's soul hangs around in Ghost. If not, then Mel is his only chance. Her chapter was, in my mind, rather pointless. That tidbit could have been shown from Jon's POV as well. But I guess GRRM sets her up to be the opening Wall POV. And she might very well supplant Jon as POV, as we don't have POVs of resurrected people as of yet, so I'm not sure why we should get any more Jon chapters. Even if he lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Horse With No Name Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Has anyone else thought about what this assassination means for the Night's Watch? I mean, they have lots of wildlings sitting in Castle Black, which is surrounded by castles garrisoned by wildlings, all those having been allowed in only by command of the Lord Commander Marsh and his men killed. Not to mention Tormund, who seems to like Jon a lot and still wields the most influence among them. So what happens next? Will the wildlings kill of Marsh and his toadies? Will they wipe out the Night's Watch? Or will Marsh try to take Tormund unawares while he is drinking with his men in the shield hall? Both the wildlings and the Night's Watch abiding by the pact seems pretty unrealistic to me,after this. Jon being healed or revived is the only way to avoid blood, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misanthrope Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I think I'm done with the series at this point I'm just going to chalk it up as a loss. The death of protagonists which at one point was harrowing and provocative has become cliche and trite. There is no reason to vest interest in any character anymore, at which point I find myself saying "why bother?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misanthrope Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 double post :shocked: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anya, Vengeance Demon Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Ever since I read the first Bloodraven theory I suspected Mormont's crow was there to watch the Lord Commander. Now that the theory is true, I'm 99% certain, excluding divine intervention from He Who Writes Above.Yeah. We know that Bloodraven is the 3-eyed crow, and more than that he had some means of watching Bran as he grew up. Presumably he was also keeping tabs on Jojen, perhaps also Euron if that theory is correct. So obviously he has some sorcerous means of keeping tabs on disparate parts of the realm, and I think it's not hard to imagine that Mormont's crow may be one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsala Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Poor Ser Patrek. Torn apart just to fulfill a prophecy. "Under a bleeding star"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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