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Xray the Enforcer

[ADWD SPOILERS] Reek 1

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I could never bring myself about to hate Theon! I never respected his actions in ACOK but remember that at first, he was trying to prove himself to his father's stubborn attitude that Theon was still a Greyjoy at heart! Then family jealousy took over and Theon lost control from there on.

But no one should go through that much pain, I'm surprised Theon can even barely remember who he ued to be, he mut have some strength.

Ramsay, no matter the hatred I have for him, Martin has truly created a villian that everyone can be terrified of. But i wonder, with all of the torturing Ramsay has done, I wonder if he has heard of Karma?

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I understand. I despise Ramsay as much as the next person. That doesn't mean my hatred for Theon lessens. They called him Turncloak for a reason and in MY opinion he deserves everything and more than he got. Once again, that is just MY opinion.

Not to disrespect your opinion, but remember that every member of The Bolton household and the garrsion of the Dredfort are ut as much 'TurnCloaks' as Theon is! Roose murdered Robb Stark, his son burned Winterfell and prowled the North during ACOK, and the Bolton forces, allied with the Freys murdered the Northern army at The Twins!

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I know this is a conversation from a long time ago, but I don't see how people are feeling sorry for Theon... He is just below Walder Frey in my book of most hated (ok Joff is actually #1.) He SINGLE HANDEDLY destroyed Winterfell IMO. Even though he didn't kill Bran and Rickon, he was fully prepared to, and would have if they hadn't escaped.

Their perceived deaths are essentially what set in motion the hysteria in Catelyn Tully and carelessness of Robb, so I count him partially responsible for their deaths as well. Not to mention the cold blooded murder of the two boys in their place, the death of Rodrik, and the indirect deaths caused later by Ramsay/the sack of Winterfell.

Ramsay, Roose, et al are evil from inside out, but Theon had it all. If he had learned to be satisfied with his life, instead of feeling wrongly persecuted by those that treated him best, he might have gone places under Robb's rule. They were after all childhood friends.

Now the psychological and psychological torture by Ramsay is not something I'd wish on anyone. But I can't control the Bolton's and that is just what they do. I'm not going to feel sorry for Theon because he not only brought it upon himself, but threw away a far better and more honorable life for no reason.

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I know this is a conversation from a long time ago, but I don't see how people are feeling sorry for Theon... He is just below Walder Frey in my book of most hated (ok Joff is actually #1.) He SINGLE HANDEDLY destroyed Winterfell IMO. Even though he didn't kill Bran and Rickon, he was fully prepared to, and would have if they hadn't escaped.

Their perceived deaths are essentially what set in motion the hysteria in Catelyn Tully and carelessness of Robb, so I count him partially responsible for their deaths as well. Not to mention the cold blooded murder of the two boys in their place, the death of Rodrik, and the indirect deaths caused later by Ramsay/the sack of Winterfell.

Ramsay, Roose, et al are evil from inside out, but Theon had it all. If he had learned to be satisfied with his life, instead of feeling wrongly persecuted by those that treated him best, he might have gone places under Robb's rule. They were after all childhood friends.

Now the psychological and psychological torture by Ramsay is not something I'd wish on anyone. But I can't control the Bolton's and that is just what they do. I'm not going to feel sorry for Theon because he not only brought it upon himself, but threw away a far better and more honorable life for no reason.

Oh, please there are worse persons than Theon in the story ,give me a break . I can not believe you did not mention Cersei whuch she is 10 times worse that Theon in every way .

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Theon, I hated the guy for what he did to the people in Winterfell. But I knew he did it because he just wanted to prove himself to his father, doesn't justify what he did tho'. But wow, this was just horrifying, brutal and totally unexpected.

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I've just finished reading this chapter and the first word that came to my mind was: "SICK!" Seriously... I mean I always disliked Boltons and you could see how twisted they must be by their sigil (Flayed man? Come on, who takes that for a sigil!?) but that was a whole new level of gross.

I absolutely loathed Theon for what he did to Winterfell, but at least he tried to take Winterfell without blood being shed and he definitely didn't deserve this.

That was one of the few chapters in the series that I felt like Martin kind of enjoys grossing us out xP

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Why does everyone hate Theon so much? Sure, he's not the nicest guy and he attacked Winterfell but he certainly isn't the first person in the series to attack a place for power! Do you think Robb wasn't killing innocent people when he was away? What about Ned when he rebelled? No one is truly a perfect good guy in this story.

Why hate Theon? Well, mainly I hate him because Robb Stark loved and trusted him as a brother, and he felt the same way about Robb Stark. So where was Theon during the Red Wedding? Betraying Robb Stark, there's where. He was supposed to get Balon to back Robb. When Balon said no, Theon should have said, "Ok, sure, I'll get right on that thing of attacking the North, Dad...." and then sent a raven warning Robb, and either sailed, walked, or CRAWLED to get to Robb's side. They were sworn brothers, and Theon sold him out to Balon Greyjoy for nothing.

He expected everyone to appreciate that he was "doing them a favor" by taking the castle without raping, razing, burning, or killing, but how could he have expected that? He grew up there--he knew how important loyalty and honor were to the Northmen! How could he think he could steal Bran Starks' birthright, disposses Eddard Stark's heirs, and not have all the wrath of the north come down on his fool head?

Cocky prick doesn't even begin to cover it. And yet, I cried for him.

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Not to disrespect your opinion, but remember that every member of The Bolton household and the garrsion of the Dredfort are ut as much 'TurnCloaks' as Theon is! Roose murdered Robb Stark, his son burned Winterfell and prowled the North during ACOK, and the Bolton forces, allied with the Freys murdered the Northern army at The Twins!

Did Ramsay Bolton live in Winterfell, did the people of Winterfell love him and accept as a son. No. The worst part about A Dance with Dragons was reading all the Theon chapters. I hate him so much, and i will always blame him for the death of poor old Maester Luwin, Old Nan, and countless others. On top of that for releasing Ramsay Bolton on the Realm.

I hate Ramsay Bolton, but you can't hate a snake for biting you. He always was cruel. Roose Bolton and Tywin Lannister were geniuses for planning and executing the Red Wedding. Think about it they got rid of a enemy with very little casualties on both sides. Compared to meeting him in the field were countless people would die. Robb was an idiot, and Cat should have seen this coming. Roose Bolton did what was best for his House, because he knew Robb lost the war when he married Westerling.

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The decision to sack Winterell was terrible. However, I don't think Theon really knew what he was getting himself into. I think he actually thought he could take it without having to kill Bran and Rickon and with everything going nice and smoothly. I think I see him as pathetic (especially considering his current condition) more than anything. I don't think there's any world where he actually would have killed Bran and Rickon. His attempts to prove himself as "Iron Born" were doomed to fail because he just doesn't have it in him. He's best described as a coward, IMO.

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Just read the chapter and I feel really sorry for Theon. I've always somewhat symathized with him, because of the way he was treated by everyone, but the part about Ramsay flaying him gave me shivers. When he mentioned Sansa and how he hoped he would wed her I almost cried.

This is definitely my favorite chapter in the book so far.

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Can I ask a stupid question?

If Sansa is the heir to Winterfel and married to Tyrion, how does Ramsey plans on claiming the North by marring (fake) Arya?

It's been a while since SOS and I don't really remember much about this plot...

I know Sansa is a fugitive and so is her husband, making them loose their claim, but the plans regarding fake-Arya were before all that happened, right?

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Can I ask a stupid question?

If Sansa is the heir to Winterfel and married to Tyrion, how does Ramsey plans on claiming the North by marring (fake) Arya?

It's been a while since SOS and I don't really remember much about this plot...

I know Sansa is a fugitive and so is her husband, making them loose their claim, but the plans regarding fake-Arya were before all that happened, right?

I'm not sure. I believe Tywin send the fake-Arya to Ramsey when Sansa and Tyrion were married and still in Kingslanding. Most likely he was planning to keep Sansa in Kingslanding and let Arya (Roose & Ramsey) rule in Winterfell in her place. But before that all could happen Joffrey was murdered by Sansa and Tyrion (atleast, that is what the realm thinks), so Sansa is gone and a fugitive and that's why Arya is the heir to Winterfell.

I hope it makes sense, but that's how I interpreted it.

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I never hated Theon, and while the decision to sack Winterfell ended horribly for all involved, I sympathized with him and understood where he was coming from with his plot. Not saying I condone his actions, but I can't bring myself to hate him for them either.

The saddest thing about this chapter, in my opinion, was the comparison of Theon now to the Theon of GoT. Back then, he was so confident (to the point of arrogance, perhaps) and constantly smiling/laughing at his own black humor. Now he's a husk of his former self, where I don't think the original Theon even exists anymore. It's a shame, though the character progression from here is bound to be interesting.

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i'm about halfway through ADwD and feel like most of the members here on the board -- no one deserves what happened to theon. don't get me wrong -- he totally deserves punishment for what he did. and i absolutely hated getting to his chapters in previous books. when discussing characters with my friends, my summation of his character was: "theon greyjoy is a bitch."

nonetheless, what ramsay has done to him is vile. i cringe reading reek's chapters. to be in the mind of such a broken man, after we've already been inside his mind as an impetuous, snotty, kind of douchey but really is just wounded with daddy issues young man, is completely unsettling.

i do hope GRRM has some sort of redemptive arc for theon in the coming books. i think, because of what he did to the starks/winterfell/the north as theon greyjoy (not reek), he'll wind up dying in the end. but i think there is room for him to do one good act, to save himself from whatever unholy hell awaits the likes of the boltons and the freys, one good act that might actually let him rest in peace.

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I, too, found myself liking Theon's chapters in this book. However, I did sort of think that GRRM was trying a little to hard to replace the Hound and The Mountain when he created Ramsey. Those characters were oddly likeable even though you knew they were supposed to be villians. R. Bolt is just an over-the-top lunatic. However, it will be satisfying when something horrible happens to him!

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Okay so I all I can guess is that this chapter occurs after Some time after 28/12/299 (when Ralf Kenning was alive and well and the Ironborn were not starving)

since Theon is brought out of the dungeon in order to cause the Ironborn surrender at Moat Cailin (we can assume that the Ironborn are fully starving by this chapter)

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This may sound like an incredibly stupid question, but how did you all know that it's Theon? Not that I'm doubting it, it makes sense and it certainly cannot be the real "Reek" (as he died in CoK), BUT I just had no idea after reading the chapter and wonder what I missed. How can you all be so sure?

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I read it in French so I can't quote anything but at the end of the chapter, someone said something like "No! Him? Ned Stark's pupil?" (don't know if that's the word in English xDD

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Theon is a little boy who was pretending to be some great warrior. He feels the need to prove himself at every turn because of the people around him. Robb (his "brother") was extremely successful on the battlefield and was popular besides before the war. His sister is as fierce a warrior as anyone. His uncles are slightly crazy with the fever for fighting... Theon was a black sheep everywhere he went and wanted to show that he could stand alone as a ruler.

That being said, I'm not a huge Theon fan. I was shocked and amazed to find out that he was Reek. I wouldn't say he deserved what he's getting from Ramsay, but some sort of justice needed to be done for what he did to Winterfell.

Ramsay Bolton will definitely get his at some point. He is a complete villain. I think GRRM was brilliant by making Theon his captive. This was the only way to inspire any feelings of pity for Theon, otherwise he's just the ass that screwed over Winterfell. Well played, GRRM, well played indeed.

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