[ADWD SPOILERS] The Wayward Bride

[Wise Westerosi]

It is certainly awkwardly worded.

[Forelver]

I don't think she's dead. It's like the chapter in SOS which ended with Sandor hitting Arya in the head-a lot of people thought she was dead but she wasn't. But I don't understand what it meant when Asha kept hearing trumpets and saying that was wrong?

[Altonahk]

Re the scene:

I felt a bit uncomfortable about the scene, mostly because it came out of nowhwere and because we only got that Asha was aroused way into the scene. Since she was the POV character, her physical reaction shouldn't have come that late. If she had been thrilled in an exciting way right from the start, it would have been more obvious that it was a fantasy. Women can feel adrenalin surges as well .

Martin's 3rd Person Limited is more stand-offish in comparison to many other 3PL writers. Robert Jordon (and now Brandon Sanderson) allowed the POV character to HEAVILY influence EVERYTHING that was being said. Martin writes his 3PL's as if he is writing 3rd Person Omniscient, but limiting himself to only one character. Omniscient knows everything, but holds off revealing anything until the most effective/appropriate time. So, it's not that surprising that he didn't say that she was aroused until later. Also, remember that he has a past in a visual medium.

The Iron men often remind me of wildlings. Asha is kind of like a spear-wife. You don't win her with sweet words, you have to prove that your man enough to take her. She wanted him, but she's not the submissive type. Also, she wanted him, but had reasons to resist. Those objections were overruled. It wasn't rape, it was just far more forceful and harsh then our society excepts as proper.

[Jennelyn]

Asha is the kind of girl who really would kill you if you actually managed to rape her. She's been surrounded by men all her life. Seems like the girl can hold her own.

She and her band did amazingly well battling the numbers in an environment that they were not comfortable with. I would really like to see what happens with her and Theon. I'd like to see Stannis make her an ally.

[Hear Us Roar]

Great chapter for Asha and finally a battle

northmen vs iron men

was a great combo

[Fryie]

All those people complaining about the "rape" scene being sexist should be reminded that Martin is not writing his own opinions but the POVs of other characters.

Even if she had been raped, why would it have been sexist to write about it? Brienne almost gets raped, Theon gets flayed, Robb and Cat get slaughtered ... why is writing about that more okay than writing about rape? It's not sexist to write about bad things that happen to women.

And indeed it was not even rape.

[stealthvoodoo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't most major character deaths been told from someone else's POV when it's real? Ned, Tywin, Joff and Rob were told through other people's eyes. On the other hand, characters who either aren't dead, or are dead and make a revival someplace (Caitlyn) are told in their own POV.

Brienne at the inn, Tyrion on the river.

Caitlyn being the exception where she died, but not permanently.

Leads me to be confident (along with the "dream" of a fiery heart, black stag in a gold forest etc) that Asha didn't bite it.

[Alstruction]

I was wondering about sometihng in this chapter. Asha receives a piece of theon's flesh and the note written in blood. I'm wondering: Did Ramsay flay theon again after he completed his mission? o was he just saving that piece of skin. And also if the note was written in theon's blood?

[Light a wight tonight]

I'd say anyone who succeeded in raping Asha would be a moron to go to sleep afterward. He'd wake up "incomplete" or otherwise maimed if he were to wake up at all.

[Plem]

I like Asha. I wish GRRM would stop giving her weird chapter titles and just use her name. It would make me feel a lot more confident that she's going to be around for a while.

[voodooqueen126]

The Last Asha chapter was

AFFC 12: The Kraken's Daughter

and it occured on the 23/12/299, Asha was also present at the Kingsmoot on the Iron Isles that occured on the 28/12/299 but had escaped the Iron Isles by the 31/03/300, as mentioned by Victarion in his last chapter in AFFC (The Reaver).

So how long do you think has passed since then?

[Bastard Walder]

Was no-one else outraged by the very sexist way in which Martin wrote about the rape scene?

It wasn't rape. It was a kinky rape fetish or something.

[Bastard Walder]

Was no-one else outraged by the very sexist way in which Martin wrote about the rape scene?

It wasn't rape. It was a kinky rape fetish or something.

[Wah-Tah]

Hmm, maybe I just didn't read it carefully enough, but I never thought that she might be dead at the end of the chapter. I just assumed that she had passed out from the blood loss and exhaustion, since she had been battling for quite a bit.

Also, the sex scene felt a little bit too gratuitous for me. GRRM has done sex before, but this was more obtuse than the rest? I'm not complaining about it, but I would have been fine if it had been left out.

[Ygrette]

I must say, GRRM has very successfully fooled me - despite me thinking I have gotten used to his bloody mummer's tricks by now. He keeps catching me off guard.

For one, I was surprised Quarl would be foolish enough to try and rape her. I had "uh-oh, that guy's SO going to die now" written all over my face. And then things looked worse for her and I thought "damn" and was afraid she'd get killed. Because obviously noone would rape a woman like Asha and, as someone else said so brilliantly, would go to sleep - ever again.

And then when she revealed and unraveled the whole backstory with the peaches... yes, that was surprising. And awesome. I think it was brilliantly written. Not necessarily needed for the story, but very entertaining and unforgettable, like the epic (almost) seduction of her own brother.

And uhm... the shrubs and trees were actually animated, sentient and fighting?

I thought it were just northmen hidden in trees and clad in shrubs and it therefore looked like the plants were actually attacking them?

Before I read this thread, I was pretty certain she's dead. I listened to the audiobook (will definitely re-read the ebook) and was sure to have heard something like her skull was split in two halves. And unless she knows the same tricks as Dagmer Cleftjaw, this would not look good. But I got it right that everyone else, including Quarl, are dead, right?

As to the question why Stannis would want to keep her as a hostage - doesn't she have "king's blood", being Balon Greyjoy's daughter? I'm sure a certain red priestess would find a good use for her, even if Euron is unlike to ransom her...

[Ygrette]

Oh and by the way.

I'm a 5'5" woman and don't weigh much, but I've been weight lifting for years and done martial arts for even more years. I think Asha's melee abilities are more than just credible. It's not always about size. My kung fu grand master has the stature of a 12 year old and I've seen him demonstrating techniques on guys with a football career history. Strong muscles are not always big and bulky. Bruce Lee had the stature of a gnome (or an Imp). ;o)

I'm not saying I'm invincible or anything and I surely couldn't successfully wield a longsword or a battle axe. But I think Asha could very easily kick ass in battle if she's grown up amongst ironmen. For me personally, she's absolutely credible. I've seen women... oh my. You don't wanna know. :D

[Tewks44]

I like Asha but in all honesty I kind of hope she's dead. After a string of brutal, unexpected deaths, I feel like now every time a character "dies" it ends up beign a twist, and they turn up alive later in the book. It's happened with Davos (beheaded), Tyrion (drowned), Bran and Rikon (beheaded), Mance (burned alive), Catelyn (throat cut... this one is forgivable though because it was such an awesome ending to ASoS), and Dondarrion (mortally wounded by the Hound). Martin handles these false deaths well, but now whenever I read about a character dying I don't have that feeling of my heart dropping because I know there's a good chance the character will come back in a couple hundred pages or so.

[redqueen]

I didn't get the impression that she was dead. It seemed like she was taken somewhere. That tells me that she was kidnapped and being held somewhere. She said that she could be dead. She heard trumpets. It seemed too dreamlike to be death. Characters die in someone else's POV. I don't remember any character dying in his/her own POV character. For the same reason, Brienne isn't dead until I find out that she's dead from another POV character.

[Bell]

Same here. Never got the impression that Asha died.

[Lord Barristan]

I never got he impression she was dead either I'm surprised so many people did, especially when she says she dreamt of stannis' banner... She wouldn't know what stannis's banner looked life and if she did, how would she know it was stannis since all she fights are northemen?

Its obvious she's not dead- In a haze she saw stannis banner