[ADWD SPOILERS] Melisandre 1

[Arya Ready]

It was said numerous times that she just doesn't sleep. I think she just stays up all night looking into the fire instead of resting. Seriously, does anyone really think Stannis has enough passion in him for a physical affair of any kind? He's not that guy.

[Ser Edward the KnightHawk]

An interesting thing I thought was that it said that she had no need for her bed since stannis left. certainly implies a relationship very strongly.

I caught this too. Many people might think that Stannis is not the type of person to do this sort of thing but we also didn't think Mel to be the sort of person to see to the safety of Davos' son Devan until we had her POV. So I still think this is a huge possibility.

As for Davos' luck, I found it odd. Mel can obviously (even though interpreted incorrectly) see things in her flames. Could she have known where Davos would have ended up after Blackwater? Probably a little farfetched but there HAS to be a reason she brought it up.

Honestly, I'm fed up with the AA prophecy. Can we just not have one? Having a single character end up being the 'savior' of everyone just makes me think this is going to end up like any other series/novel/movie/tv show/etc. I like ASOIAF because you never have one definitive protagonist. I feel if GRRM does end up picking ONE person to be the hero at the end he'll just have abided with the mainstream's expectations. Sadly, it will probably be Dany and I will more than likely be incredibly disappointed.

I also believe that Mel is covering her true appearance. I don't think it'll be a HUGE surprise as to what she is but I do expect her to be a lot older than she seems to be. Maybe even close to Aemon's age or older.

[Jennelyn]

Maybe she pretends to sleep when Stannis is around so she won't raise his suspicions. Same as the food.

Her visions do seem pretty vague and she obviously misreads them quite a bit. She also embellishes her spells for show and does things at great strain to herself. Interesting.

I had the strange feeling that the grey girl might be Lady Stoneheart. Hopefully we'll find out soon.

The Mance reveal was great! I had a feeling about that with his death where he said he wasn't him and then with the fight John had with him in the yard. So now, like others, I am curious about the ruby that Mel also wears. She is not what she seems.

[Fryie]

Awesome chapter. Great discussion. I'm loving this book again.

[R'hllor-Is-The-Truth]

Maybe she pretends to sleep when Stannis is around so she won't raise his suspicions. Same as the food.

Her visions do seem pretty vague and she obviously misreads them quite a bit. She also embellishes her spells for show and does things at great strain to herself. Interesting.

I had the strange feeling that the grey girl might be Lady Stoneheart. Hopefully we'll find out soon.

The Mance reveal was great! I had a feeling about that with his death where he said he wasn't him and then with the fight John had with him in the yard. So now, like others, I am curious about the ruby that Mel also wears. She is not what she seems.

The Mance reveal for me was a surprise. Because I just assumed that he broke down and tried his best to stay alive. But I didn't like it because George is getting into the habit of reviving characters alot. I doubt Stannis has sex with her, maybe they just share the same bed. Because she doesn't seem like that type of person, and neither does Stannis.

[Laohu]

I think someone else touched upon the idea that I had after the Melisandre revealed her illusion technique, but I am surprised there is not more discussion on the similarities between Melisandre's "glamor" and Jaqen H'ghar. He seems to have a similar, if not identical, power of illusion. It would be interesting if there was a link here, but as far as we know, JH is a Faceless Man who serves the Many-faced God. In light of that discrepancy, I suppose we have an identical power coming from different supernatural sources.

[Jelliefishie]

I think someone else touched upon the idea that I had after the Melisandre revealed her illusion technique, but I am surprised there is not more discussion on the similarities between Melisandre's "glamor" and Jaqen H'ghar. He seems to have a similar, if not identical, power of illusion. It would be interesting if there was a link here, but as far as we know, JH is a Faceless Man who serves the Many-faced God. In light of that discrepancy, I suppose we have an identical power coming from different supernatural sources.

Laohu, this is a very interesting point! You may be on to something....anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think when Jaquen gave Arya 3 kills...he mentions that 3 deaths are owed to the "Red God". So far, the only red god that we know is R'hllor, the one that Mel serves.

[kephv]

I don't think the glamors have anything to do with the supernatural or any god in particular, just spells and magic anyone can invoke if they know how. For Mel it seems to have something to do with her rubies (on lightbringer, herself, and Mance). In The Mystery Knight Maynard Plumm, who many believe was Bloodraven glamored, wears a big moonstone brooch. Perhaps there's some power in the stones along with whatever object from the other person they might have (hair, bones, etc) that make the glamors work.

[A Dark And Stormy Knight]

As to the 'Melisandre not needing food' thing, I kind of felt the same way about it as I felt about Aeron Greyjoy (another fanatical priest of a dualistic religion, oddly enough) being able to drink seawater. I have no idea what the nature of the connection here (if there is one) is, but I'm suspicious.

[Nero Stark]

I thought that this chapter was awesome! :bowdown: the explanation about Mance being alive was good and surprisingly not too far-fetched as i was affraid it would be! and by the way.. there's something that i remembered when i was reading this chapter.

In a storm of swords when we saw Mance for the first time, he told Jon that the red stripes on his cloak was made by a woman whose grandmother was from Asshai. could that woman be Melisandre or at least be someone related to her??

About the Azor Ahai prophecy, i think that it isn't one person, but a group of three persons. my bet goes to Dany, Jon and the third Aegon. but knowing that Melisandre saw in her flames, Stannis as Azor Ahai, i couln't discount that possiblity. we must remember that Stannis's grandmother was targaryen. :P

[Ladywhiskers]

I was torn. I was pretty disappointed with the way that Mance 'died.' It did seem out of character, but I was more upset at Jon for apparently not being upset. It's been a while since I read storm of swords but wasn't Mance sort of like a mentor to him for a while? Very respectable guy and he saved Jon, and Jon didn't seem to care much when he was supposedlyburned alive.

The other thing I wondered was, why didn't Rattleshirt yell out that he wasn't mance as he was being burned? How did he get forced into pretending he was a king even as he was dying?

He was screaming "I'm not the king," the whole time! The only thing he didn't yell was "my name is Rattleshirt!" (which would have been a dead giveaway.) But he definitely did NOT pretend to be a king.

[fassreiter]

He was screaming "I'm not the king," the whole time! The only thing he didn't yell was "my name is Rattleshirt!" (which would have been a dead giveaway.) But he definitely did NOT pretend to be a king.

Yes, he did. Until he realized what they meant to do with the cage, that is. Until then, Rattleshirt acted in a very un-Rattleshirtly way, smiling and pushing away long hair which he, Rattleshirt, didn't even have in 'reality'. Which leads to the conclusion that he had been offered a deal which included him playing - consciously - at being Mance Rayder, and in exchange not getting burned, nor getting executed in any way. That he was talking about treachery later does probably mean that he had expected to be pardoned in order to lead the wildlings for Stannis. Later Jon hears him denying his name, but we don't know if he says his real name, too, maybe he even did. Maybe it would even have had an effect if he had denied his identity from the beginning, but I think he didn't expect Melisandre not to play the switcheroo in his favour in the end. Too bad.

[never trust a bard]

If nothing else, this chapter let us see some of what was in the flame without Mel's interpretations. I think this is more valuable than learning of her motivations or mindset.

[Blue Rose Direwolf]

This is one of the main things I took from this chapter, and in some ways it only makes more dangerous for Jon.

Mel: if the wildlings do attack the shadow tower, it will just be a feint and they'll attack somewhere else.

Jon: You mean Eastwatch?

Mel: Huh? No, not Eastwa - wait, I mean... yeah. Yeah, definitely Eastwatch.

:bang:

It does however answer a question that was playing on my mind during her chapter: how did she know it was Arya on the horse, when she never knew what she looked like? Then I realised that she only told Jon about it after Jon got the letter on the Wall. So Mel saw some girl on a horse and had no idea who it was, then she heard from someone at Castle Black that Jon's sister is about to be married, and then she told Jon, "hey, I saw your sister in the flames!". So she took 2 and 2 together and is now absolutely convinced the answer is 5. I don't care how well intentioned she is, she's a bullshit-merchant and very dangerous.

It was Jon, wasn't it? Though I don't think it was 100% confirmed, he seemed pretty set on it.

I totally agree. She might be well intentioned but she's dangerously self-righteous (ref. Bloody Mary who thought burning people at the stake was correct because they were heretics) and even worse than that, she's stupid. She tells everyone that she's more skilled at reading the flames than most of her brethren but she's wrong again and again. I want Jon to run whenever he see's the crazy red woman coming.

[Crown]

I knew it! I was sure Mance didn't die. Awesome revelation.

Other than all the Jon/Arya prophecy stuff: what could possibly be meant with Lot Seven and Melony. I have seriously no fucking idea.

Anyway, one hell of a chapter, loved to see some stuff from her point of view.

EDIT: Loving the thing she did for Davos, keeping Devan save with her. That's just fantastic and totally unexpected.

[homedawg]

This was a fantastic chapter, one of the best in the entire series and the one chapter I was looking forward to most ever since I heard that GRRM would include Mel as a POV. My only complaint is that it is the only Mel chapter in the book, though clues in this chapter point towards more Mel chapters later. I think the amount of people who like this chapter will convince GRRM to add more Mel chapters in the next two books, assuming enough people write to him to request him that. (or if he reads about it here. I am 100% convinced after reading up to this point that GRRM visists these boards regularly.)

The best thing about this chapter was that it has FINALLY put loony theories about Mel being an agent of the great other, or Mel secretly deceieving Stannis for her own gain, etc etc. Basically, retarded theories that made Mel into something she definately she is not. Thankfully, this chapter has put an end to all that. Mel cares about other people, she is compassionate (Devan), she cares for Stannis and belives he is the one, she cares for Jon Snow and wishes to gain his trust, and she is a 'good guy' who is against the ultimate 'bad guys' of this series.

It's interesting to note that Mel's powers have increased at the Wall. That must have been the reason Lightbringer was so bright in a previous Jon chapter. Apparently, Mel is strong in Asshai, less powerful in Westeros, and at her strongest at the Wall. It was also very interesting to note that Mel looks to danger upon her person first thing every day. Me thinks this might turn out to be her doom, as since the fires obviously do not show everything all the time, she may not see her doom when/iif it approaches. Another intruiging thing was that she uses powders and pyromancer tricks. We saw one of them, when the Horn of Joramun was burning the fires turned green.

I always had the belief that the old horn that Jon found with the dragon glass near the Fist of First Men is the Horn of Joramun. Which Sam now has with him at the Citadel?

[homedawg]

I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow!!! ​ Great line, but no way GRRM is spelling it out to be that obvious. For as good as Mel is supposed to be at reading the flames she seems to be misinterpreting some important things. Which leads to the question; what exactly is Mel's purpose?

[voodooqueen126]

okay, so Jon sent out Jack Bulwer on a ranging in Jon chapter 6 (or ADWD chapter 28) and now he is dead, killed by the Weeper.

In this chapter Mance Rayder is sent out to rescue "Arya" from Ramsay Bolton at Winterfell.

[cebollita]

so why didn't Mel kill Mance?

[justashadow]

The whole Mance switcheroo at the end caught me off guard. I really wasn't expecting that one but then what can you expect from Mel.

it's funny how she thinks of Jon as being like Stannis in the beginning so she must have the same plans for him as she did for Stannis.

And now I'm wondering if there is some correlation between Ygritte and Mel because Jon mentions that Ygritte was "kissed by fire". Just a thought.

Kinda a freaky to get into Mel's head though.