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Linda

[ADwD Spoilers] Updating the Citadel

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Linda, thanks to you and Ran for keeping all of this straight. I don't want to add any confusion by arguing any points that may be debatable, in this thread. However, in the "Timeline" for Westeros, Robert's Rebellion, the first sentence says that Rhaegar abducted Lyanna from King's Landing. I would like to know if there is a citation for that, as I have scoured the five volumes and found absolutely nothing that even hints at where Lyanna was disappeared from. Thanks, again.

Wasn't she a Lady in Waiting for Elia?

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Can we add/confirm this to the SSM:

Tommy Patterson, artist for the comic book version of AGoT in discussing the difficulties of visualising the Others, supposedly posted in an essay by Tommy Patterson at the back of the collected edition of the comic book version where he discusses the various characters and in this case the very real problems in visualising the Others:

I had many talks with George. He told me of the ice swords, and the reflective, camouflaging armor that picks up the images of the things around it like a clear, still pond. He spoke a lot about what they were not, but what they were was harder to put into words. Here is what George said, in one e-mail: 'The Others are not dead. They are strange, beautiful… think, oh… the Sidhe made of ice, something like that… a different sort of life… inhuman, elegant, dangerous.

Brought by the Black Crow

Edited by mor2

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The Concordance and the Prophecies and such are waiting the end of the season for me to really be able to focus on it again. :)

Hrm... I'll actually contact Tommy directly and see if he can share that email directly, or at least as an excerpt.

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Hi!

I was wondering,would you reconsider Quaithe's >Glass Candles are burning< part as simple warning,and not really a prophecy?

She begins her saying with this statement,and it is clear that she SAW lion,griffin,dark flame,etc coming,in the same manner Marwyn saw Sam coming : via glass candles. And she is also aware that each of them has agenda of their own - which can be burdening to Dany's path. (Quaithe calls Dany to pass under the Shadow,offering the truth,so she is aware that Dany is to act in story greater than throne gaming)

I feel that true warning is about the candles - if one is able to enters somebody's dream,she warns Dany about that too. (lol,a glass candle hot-line,all people trying to hack into Dany's dreams.)

Dany could be vulnerable and under influence,under glass' magic. She is by nature already impressionable and has experience in magic,so I can see the true danger in that.

Regarding her visions in the House of the Undying,and little barefoot girl running towards red door and in connecting with the vision of man who tried to kill her,I think it is safe to presume that is Arya,given her association with Faceless Men,and that these 3 vision denote her mortal dangers. (third being white lion: 1)Tyrion,for white lion is unque and so is Tyrion from the rest of the Lannisters,(lion among grass taller than men and Tyrion is often described like being giant,and casting big shadow and 2)Jaime,as Lannister in the Kingsguard.

Regarding the fires Dany has to light,I believe that 2 of them has already been fulfilled 1) fire for life : giving life to dragons 2)fire for death : giving death to the Undying,doing what up to that moment was impossible,for Undying to die. 3)fire to love : this is ominous,if indeed this part is connected to Jon,I see him on fire (sacrifice)

In her dreams in first book,after the birthing and before the pyre,she hears Ser Jorah's words that Rhaegar was the last dragon,but when she sees Rhaegar on Trident,and lifts the visor,she sees herself(!) She is the last dragon,and I think this goes in line with her important role in the Westeros' destiny.

The most interesting part is > the dragon must have three heads< Head is synonymous with having power,and being in charge,and in this case being the king/queen : having/wearing the crown,so this could mean that the future ruler will rule within three entities,let's say in Dany's case as khaleesi,Queen of Meereen and Westeros (the last by conquest). And it could very well be that three heads are not three riders,and that these notions don't overlap but stand as separate ideas that don't exclude each other. Dragons need riders,but the prophecy dragon represents a Targaryen,not literate dragon.

Would love to see if you can find any of this useful or engaging,since I loved the Citadel,and theories I found there.

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It's already in the SSM. In the Concordance, once I find time to update it! Some offocial projects have kept me busy, but once those are out of the way for awhile, I'll be working on that. Then everything in the SSM that was added since the last update will be getting in.

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Hi!

I was wondering,would you reconsider Quaithe's >Glass Candles are burning< part as simple warning,and not really a prophecy?

She begins her saying with this statement,and it is clear that she SAW lion,griffin,dark flame,etc coming,in the same manner Marwyn saw Sam coming : via glass candles. And she is also aware that each of them has agenda of their own - which can be burdening to Dany's path. (Quaithe calls Dany to pass under the Shadow,offering the truth,so she is aware that Dany is to act in story greater than throne gaming)

I feel that true warning is about the candles - if one is able to enters somebody's dream,she warns Dany about that too. (lol,a glass candle hot-line,all people trying to hack into Dany's dreams.)

Dany could be vulnerable and under influence,under glass' magic. She is by nature already impressionable and has experience in magic,so I can see the true danger in that.

Regarding her visions in the House of the Undying,and little barefoot girl running towards red door and in connecting with the vision of man who tried to kill her,I think it is safe to presume that is Arya,given her association with Faceless Men,and that these 3 vision denote her mortal dangers. (third being white lion: 1)Tyrion,for white lion is unque and so is Tyrion from the rest of the Lannisters,(lion among grass taller than men and Tyrion is often described like being giant,and casting big shadow and 2)Jaime,as Lannister in the Kingsguard.

Regarding the fires Dany has to light,I believe that 2 of them has already been fulfilled 1) fire for life : giving life to dragons 2)fire for death : giving death to the Undying,doing what up to that moment was impossible,for Undying to die. 3)fire to love : this is ominous,if indeed this part is connected to Jon,I see him on fire (sacrifice)

In her dreams in first book,after the birthing and before the pyre,she hears Ser Jorah's words that Rhaegar was the last dragon,but when she sees Rhaegar on Trident,and lifts the visor,she sees herself(!) She is the last dragon,and I think this goes in line with her important role in the Westeros' destiny.

The most interesting part is > the dragon must have three heads< Head is synonymous with having power,and being in charge,and in this case being the king/queen : having/wearing the crown,so this could mean that the future ruler will rule within three entities,let's say in Dany's case as khaleesi,Queen of Meereen and Westeros (the last by conquest). And it could very well be that three heads are not three riders,and that these notions don't overlap but stand as separate ideas that don't exclude each other. Dragons need riders,but the prophecy dragon represents a Targaryen,not literate dragon.

Would love to see if you can find any of this useful or engaging,since I loved the Citadel,and theories I found there.

Dany constantly talks about the house in braavos with the red door. Why would that be arya? I'm pretty sure she saw her own past. And what would it matter its not like she knows about the glass candles or their capabilities. That warning stands useless unless she learns about the valyrian canndles..... While I don't see the undyings prophetic words in the same light. Interesting thoughts...I don't see why people take the three heads in so many different ways. Why can't the dragons just have three riders? Or controllers? Whether someone could warg a dragon or use sorcery to connect with them. Seems ambitious to say the three heads is just dany as three ruling titles or in three different lights.

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I like the read of AA prophecy a lot, with the exception of smoke. I think fire still needs to be involved in some regard.

For Quaithe's prophecy I guess the other names are associated in groups, but Tyrion didn't arrive with Connington. I think that leaves room for Aegon to be a fake or Varys' (the mummer) dragon.

Maybe Quaithe doesn't tell the the future, she tells what happening at the moment.

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She does see the future, but the future isn't a single point in time. She saw Tyrion and Connington somewhere in the course of their journey toward Volantis... but not beyond that to where they separated and took different paths. At the same time, she seems to be aware that Victarion and Moqorro were coming together, an event that happens after Tyrion and Connington part ways. So however she sees into the future, she doesn't necessarily see one specific moment in the future, but a range of them, and for some reason she saw people aimed at Dany at different points, but not necessarily all at the same point in time.

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But at which point in time were the mummer's dragon and the sun's son travelling together? At least if you subscribe to the common theory that mummer's dragon = Aegon and sun's son = Quentyn, then Qaithe does not purely determine her pairings based on location. And that again makes it very possible that she just recounts what she sees and deduces from the present instead of an actual vision of the future, despite Kraken and Dark Flame only hooking up after she gives her warning.

Edited by The Dornishman's Wife

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That's a fair point. I still don't think she was necessarily seeing the present, though. But maybe she was.

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The answers here are very straightforward. They didn't save Rhaenys because there was no way to do so without it being known. If you save them both, Robert etc know they are alive, and thus there is danger. If you save Aegon and not Rhaenys, then no one is likely to suspect Aegon is still alive. It's pretty easy to get one baby to pass for another (especially with a smashed head).

Also, Varys' motivations to save Aegon may have nothing to do with Rhaegar. And as another posted pointed out, sadly Rhaenys is not nearly as important as Aegon. Aegon is/was the real heir.

i THINK that Linda and Elio said it well in one of their youtube videos. Clearly Aegon was worth more as a potential King. but also it would have been very hard to smuggle out an older child who would have been easily recognized, either outside the city, or inside the keep by the murderers coming to get them. a baby was easier all the way around.

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The Concordance and the Prophecies and such are waiting the end of the season for me to really be able to focus on it again. :)

Hrm... I'll actually contact Tommy directly and see if he can share that email directly, or at least as an excerpt.

Ran: I look forward to updating Patchface, where he says:

"Under the sea the mermen feast on starfish soup, and all the serving men are crabs, "proclaimed the Patchface They went. "I know, I know, oh, oh, oh."

What does this mean?

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Ran: I look forward to updating Patchface, where he says:

"Under the sea the mermen feast on starfish soup, and all the serving men are crabs, "proclaimed the Patchface They went. "I know, I know, oh, oh, oh."

What does this mean?

I believe there's a theory I've read here that the mermen represent the Manderlys (from their sigil), the starfish soup represents Davos (being the King's Hand- a hand having five fingers to match the five rays on the starfish) who was brought to White Harbor after being a captive and sent on his way or"served up" by the Lord of Sweetsister whose sigil is a crab).

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The most interesting part is > the dragon must have three heads< Head is synonymous with having power,and being in charge,and in this case being the king/queen : having/wearing the crown,so this could mean that the future ruler will rule within three entities,let's say in Dany's case as khaleesi,Queen of Meereen and Westeros (the last by conquest). And it could very well be that three heads are not three riders,and that these notions don't overlap but stand as separate ideas that don't exclude each other. Dragons need riders,but the prophecy dragon represents a Targaryen,not literate dragon.

Would love to see if you can find any of this useful or engaging,since I loved the Citadel,and theories I found there.

I thought the 3 head was possibly talking about a 3-branch type of Government.

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