El Pinko Grande Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 This is prediction purely based on the fact that Reek is now sleeping with Ramsays girls, and they seem to like him, but maybe Reek/Theon will end up turning the dogs against Ramsay.Oooh, I really hope this comes to pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maginor Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Oooh, I really hope this comes to pass.Preferably in a long hunt where Ramsay almost thinks he is going to escape until they catch up with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Theon's chapters are hard and uncomfortable to read but they are masterfully written. Each of them has been really excellent so far. The godswood scene here is just fantastic writing. BTW, the North plotline so far really disprove the notion that Ned was so clueless in the Game of Thrones because the northern nobles are all honest and straightforward guys who never schemed and plotted (except Roose) so he didn't need it. Manderly seems pretty good at the Game, Arnolf katstark is playing some kind of double game too, and others are also plotting to a degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myiagros Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 I also didn't match up the Frey pie but that is brilliant, Manderly went from being a character I didn't like in the Davos chapters to one that I do like just for that alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maginor Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Theon's chapters are hard and uncomfortable to read but they are masterfully written. Each of them has been really excellent so far. The godswood scene here is just fantastic writing. BTW, the North plotline so far really disprove the notion that Ned was so clueless in the Game of Thrones because the northern nobles are all honest and straightforward (except very few like Roose) so he didn't need it. Manderly seems pretty good at the Game, Arnolf katstark is playing some kind of double game too, and others are also plotting to a degree.Yes, but the Starks were probably so established and secure in their position that they didn't have to play the game with their own vassals. This is proved by how easy it is for Robb to get all the banners rallied to him. He doesn't get any of them against him until Winterfell is burned and he makes some bad decisions.The Starks probably kept power because they were honorable and just, so that all the other houses in the North could agree to follow them. That would probably be the best course for a house that has been in power for a long time and is in no immediate risk of losing it. The Starks are the North, and it would take a lot for another house to get all the other houses to support a change in power. For the Starks to be sneaky and play the game with their vassals would undermine their authority.This is different in the South (bar the Vale and Dorne possibly), and especially in Kings Landing, because there all the Great Houses are in immediate danger from their neighboring Great Houses who could take them down and raise one of the smaller houses up in their place. It is also different for the smaller northern houses because they have to contend with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellspring Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 This is different in the South (bar the Vale and Dorne possibly), and especially in Kings Landing, because there all the Great Houses are in immediate danger from their neighboring Great Houses who could take them down and raise one of the smaller houses up in their place. It is also different for the smaller northern houses because they have to contend with each other.This is a recurring theme in history, especially in international diplomacy. When you have a system that provides traditions and rules of behavior, everything runs smoothly. But then someone marches in and breaks some of the rules-- they run rings around people who try to stick to their principles. The problem is that eventually everyone wises up and no one plays by the rules anymore. At that point, the system becomes ungovernable. Chaos rules until someone imposes order again. And so it's been going with Westeros. The big winners of the War of the Five Kings were the least principled Houses: the Lannisters, the Freys, the Boltons. Not to mention guys like Littlefinger. But now, Cersei and the Freys and Roose Bolton are trying to consolidate their gains and, surprise, surprise, are being frustrated by the fact that the other houses and the smallfolk aren't playing by the rules anymore. (You could say that Danaerys is in the same situation in Meereen). Once their rivals stop playing fair, these upstarts will be eaten for lunch. In some cases, literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellspring Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 BTW to me, the bedding was very revealing about someone else: Littlefinger. The last we saw Jeyne in AGoT, she was being hustled off by Littlefinger at Cersei's request after her father was murdered. A few books later, she's the new Arya. Sansa's thought about Jeyne once in a while, but never actually cared about her fate other than to miss someone to gossip with. I'd often wondered what had happened to her, and now we know. The scars from repeated whippings, combined with her mentioning that she was "t-trained" to pleasure a man, tell me all I want to know about what Littlefinger had done with her. When you're admiring his brilliance and cunning, it's easy to not notice his cruelty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipsuel Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 So, I;m assuming Bran will see this as some point, Theon in the godswood. Not sure if 'Arya' was visible from there, couldn't really place where everyone was, but it would be nice if he saw his 'sister.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momo Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 BTW to me, the bedding was very revealing about someone else: Littlefinger. The last we saw Jeyne in AGoT, she was being hustled off by Littlefinger at Cersei's request after her father was murdered. A few books later, she's the new Arya. Sansa's thought about Jeyne once in a while, but never actually cared about her fate other than to miss someone to gossip with. I'd often wondered what had happened to her, and now we know. The scars from repeated whippings, combined with her mentioning that she was "t-trained" to pleasure a man, tell me all I want to know about what Littlefinger had done with her. When you're admiring his brilliance and cunning, it's easy to not notice his cruelty.Ooh! good point. I didn't even think about that. I wonder if Ramsey knows about her past or has just been told that she's been trained. If the latter, she could be in for a world of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denstorebog Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 The scars from repeated whippings, combined with her mentioning that she was "t-trained" to pleasure a man, tell me all I want to know about what Littlefinger had done with her. When you're admiring his brilliance and cunning, it's easy to not notice his cruelty. Having seen Littlefinger's porn director scene in the HBO series, this is definitely something I don't want to think about.Someone mentioned that the singer at the wedding was someone we should recognize. Anyone want to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bac5665 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 BTW to me, the bedding was very revealing about someone else: Littlefinger. The last we saw Jeyne in AGoT, she was being hustled off by Littlefinger at Cersei's request after her father was murdered. A few books later, she's the new Arya. Sansa's thought about Jeyne once in a while, but never actually cared about her fate other than to miss someone to gossip with. I'd often wondered what had happened to her, and now we know. The scars from repeated whippings, combined with her mentioning that she was "t-trained" to pleasure a man, tell me all I want to know about what Littlefinger had done with her. When you're admiring his brilliance and cunning, it's easy to not notice his cruelty.Very true.Really, there are several just spine-chillingly evil people in these series; both Boltons, Littlefinger, Gregor. Reading Roose Bolton's characterizations has been incredible. He's so much more evil than Ramsey. Ramsey is crueler; Ramsey is a monster, but his monstrousness makes him let human, something for which it's not evil because he's so subhuman as to not know any better. But Roose, Roose knows better. And he truly doesn't care about anyone else. Not even slightly. They way he was talking to Theon was so quietly monstrous. One of the most evil speeches in the series just from how little he cared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellspring Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Having seen Littlefinger's porn director scene in the HBO series, this is definitely something I don't want to think about.Someone mentioned that the singer at the wedding was someone we should recognize. Anyone want to elaborate?A singer who knows his way to Winterfell, brings a bunch of tough women, and sings the Dornishman's wife? I'm only slightly teasing you when I say he's a different kind of "faceless" man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denstorebog Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 A singer who knows his way to Winterfell, brings a bunch of tough women, and sings the Dornishman's wife? I'm only slightly teasing you when I say he's a different kind of "faceless" man. Shite, man, I was totally trying to think back to minor characters from previous books in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipsuel Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 A singer who knows his way to Winterfell, brings a bunch of tough women, and sings the Dornishman's wife? I'm only slightly teasing you when I say he's a different kind of "faceless" man.Duh... I totally did not see it until I read this thread. Excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJMicromegas Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Duh... I totally did not see it until I read this thread. Excellent!Ok I must be very stupid, can someone just spell it out for me who the singer was. I totally missed the pie reference and any mention of poison. But then again I am also listening to it rather than reading, may have to go back and read this chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanderpanda Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Ok I must be very stupid, can someone just spell it out for me who the singer was. I totally missed the pie reference and any mention of poison. But then again I am also listening to it rather than reading, may have to go back and read this chapter.I'll give you a hint. Mance likes to sing the Dornishmans wife and he also left the wall with 6 spearwives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJMicromegas Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Damn, of course, I forgot the whole Dornishman's wife thing but the 6 spearwives should've been obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I didn't catch the Mance part.What a chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malarky1231 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 What was the poison reference? There's so many things I missed here, so many subtle hints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Clegane Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I never thought I would ever have any sympathy for Theon...but here we are, and his storyline is officially one of my favorites in the book! Absolutely heartbreaking.The Boltons are terrifying. GRRM's best villains yet. I hate them more than I ever hated Joffrey! The "bedding" scene was absolutely chilling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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