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Xray the Enforcer

[ADWD SPOILERS] The Prince of Winterfell

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I am surprised nobody has yet created a theory around a Flower maester talking Rickard Stark into wedding his son to a Tully.

Yeah, this seems important. Maybe the Maesters had something to do with starting Robert's Rebellion and the end of the Targs.

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Apparently, cannibalism is a recurring theme for this book. I think I have seen a reference to human eating human flesh in each and every major plotline thus far, since the very prologue, though I think this is the first time we actually witness it...

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Who would have thought Martin could create a character so monstrous he would make Joffrey Baratheon look well adjusted?

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Who would have thought Martin could create a character so monstrous he would make Joffrey Baratheon look well adjusted?

I don't think Joffrey was any better than Ramsay. He just didn't have the right upbringing to fully realize his potential. Roose Bolton and the first Reek were ideal tutors for sociopath school. Robert "only hit my wife when I'm drunk" Baratheon and Cersei "scheming bitch" Lannister just can't measure up.

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Ugh. This chapter was really revolting. I'm not sure I can take much more of this stuff. I mean, yeah it's sad and sort of moving but above all it's sickening. It's a kind of violence-porn. Not sure I want to say it was "good" that's for sure.

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Holy bajeesus, I didn't catch Mance or the Frey-pie...man you guys are good.

I thought the ending was pretty revolting as well. I feel like the "Ramsey is a beast in human skin" and "Theon is psychologically damaged beyond repair" ideas have been put into place pretty well already, not sure if that scene was necessary at all. Poor Jeyne (rhymes with pain). :frown5:

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Ok I re-read the passages about the pie, and I still can't see where you guys came to the conclusion that it was filled with cooked Frey. Can someone point out the specific lines?

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3 Freys missing

3 gigantic pies

the kicker, though, is the Rat Cook reference made by Manderly on the way out of the banquet.

Outside of textual sources: either GRRM or his editor mentioned before the book was published that one of the "deaths" in the books was "baked in a pie."

So, nothing absolutely explicit, but all of the textual clues lead to longpig pie.

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I think it's true that the Starks are deeply respected in the North. But, I also believe it's true that Eddard Stark

did NOT know how to play the Game of Thrones. For example, Eddard went to Cersei to reveal that he knew that Cersei's

children were the result of incest. This amateur mistake cost Eddard Stark his life. He was a failure in the Game of

Thrones, imho.

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Really disappointed in Theon at the end of this chapter, he's so pathetic.

Theon was NOT disappointing at the end of this chapter. The real disappointment was the Bolton Bastard. Why would he allow Theon to please (oral sex) his wife? Why would he ask Theon to do such a thing? In my opinion, this may show a bit of homoerotic sadism on the part of the Bolton Bastard.

By reading very carefully, I see that GRRM is "slowly" rehabilitating Theon/Reek. At first, he was only Reek. Now, he alternates between being Theon and Reek. In the end, I think he will become Theon once again. It takes time to rehabilitate someone who has been tortured as much as Theon. It's a slow process to heal him and regain his self-esteem and self-respect.

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I don't think Joffrey was any better than Ramsay. He just didn't have the right upbringing to fully realize his potential. Roose Bolton and the first Reek were ideal tutors for sociopath school. Robert "only hit my wife when I'm drunk" Baratheon and Cersei "scheming bitch" Lannister just can't measure up.

Remember, both Joffrey and Ramsay have the same thing in common---The are both of questionable birth. Joffrey is the product of incest while Ramsay is the product of rape. GRRM seems to be suggesting that the parentage of a person has some bearing on the character/personality of the person. But, did the incest between Jaime and Cersei cause Joffrey to become a "sociopath"? And, did the rape of Ramsay's mother cause Ramsay to become a "sociopath" as well? In short, GRRM has linked Joffrey and Ramsay as two sociopaths with tragic parentage.

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So, I;m assuming Bran will see this as some point, Theon in the godswood. Not sure if 'Arya' was visible from there, couldn't really place where everyone was, but it would be nice if he saw his 'sister.'

He might have already seen it. when Theon is in the godswood alone he hears someone whisper Theon and says the voice had been as faint as rustling leaves and cold as hate.

The ending of the chapters gave me the creeps, like when Sansa got married. I was hoping that after Manderly gave them the pie, that Roose and Ramsay would choke to death like Joffrey did, or maybe Stannis would come through the door and scream out a one liner while kicking ass.

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The weirwood said the name 'Theon' - does this mean that Eddard did hear Bran in the Godswood? Also does it mean that Bran will be able to interact with his other brothers; Jon and Rickon through the trees

Eddard heard a voice, he heard Bran saying "Winterfell". Theon heard someone, probably Bran, saying "Theon".

What is interesting is that Brynden maintains that no one will hear Bran, that you can only see through the trees, but it now appears if Bran has more power in that sense, and that he may actually learn to communicate through the trees. Think back to the scene in Clash of Kings as well, with Jon and the young Weirwood who was Bran.

Anyway, on a general note, horrible chapter for Theon, the degradation that GRRM has him go through is really extreme.

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No doubt in my mind Bran was speaking to Theon in the Godswood. IMO he's regaining both his sanity and his humanity bit by bit. I think we will see some redemption for Theon but I don't expect him to survive the series.

I had my suspicions about the Frey Pie, but googling the rat cook clinched it. Wiffed on Mance though. I'm not quite the Mance lover that everyone else seems to be. He's very much an enigma to me, a wild card and I think he give GRRM a lot of leeway in terms of plot and character development.

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Who would have thought Martin could create a character so monstrous he would make Joffrey Baratheon look well adjusted?

I know, I mean I though I hated Joffrey. Then this bastard of Bolton comes alaong and makes me forget all about that little prick. I mean after I read anything, ANYTHING, with this guy involved I always by the end of the chapter find myself saying "Oh god damn man, this dude would make Cannibal Corpse blush." His father too, If anything I would be more afraid of Roose. The bastard just reminds me of a sick little kid with a magnifying glass burning ants, a pretty brutal magnifying glass mind you, but to me he's just a twisted little kid with no judgement. Roose on the other hand is just as twisted but thinks more about the cruelty he dishes out and makes sure none of it will come back to bite him in the ass.

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Who would have thought Martin could create a character so monstrous he would make Joffrey Baratheon look well adjusted?

I know, I mean I though I hated Joffrey. Then this bastard of Bolton comes alaong and makes me forget all about that little prick. I mean after I read anything, ANYTHING, with this guy involved I always by the end of the chapter find myself saying "Oh god damn man, this dude would make Cannibal Corpse blush." His father too, If anything I would be more afraid of Roose. The bastard just reminds me of a sick little kid with a magnifying glass burning ants, a pretty brutal magnifying glass mind you, but to me he's just a twisted little kid with no judgement. Roose on the other hand is just as twisted but thinks more about the cruelty he dishes out and makes sure none of it will come back to bite him in the ass.

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Freys need their comeuppance, but serving human meat pies is beyond the pale.

This does not make me a fan of Manderly.

I have to agree. Serving your enemies to your enemies is bad enough, but eating them yourself is just one tick sicker. It is Westeros, fair enough, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

I did not catch it on first read, though. Or Mance and the spearwives. Seems so obvious now.

Also agree that was Bran's voice in the Godswood.

As for Theon's body, my impression was that Ramsay had stolen on more of his family jewels.

And I so wanted him to knife Ramsay at the end. I do believe he will eventually break out of his fear and do something drastic.

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This is prediction purely based on the fact that Reek is now sleeping with Ramsays girls, and they seem to like him, but maybe Reek/Theon will end up turning the dogs against Ramsay.

I TOTALLY agree! Reek's gotten really close with "the girls" and the fact that in this chapter he was entertainiing ideas about killing Ramsay....Might Theon Turncloak do a little redeeming soon?

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But, did the incest between Jaime and Cersei cause Joffrey to become a "sociopath"?

if that was the case Tommen & Marcella would also be sociopathic and they seem okay. Granted Tommen has a beet phobia but otherwise seems like a nice kid.

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Wait, if Mance was at the wedding, does he know that's not Arya Stark? Because if he brings her to Jon Snow that'll be an epic fuckup. There's a chance he would know it's not her, though. He's been to Winterfell several times.

Why would that be a mistake? I think it would be good to bring the fake Arya to one of the few people in the north who can definitely verify she is NOT Arya.

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