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Xray the Enforcer

[ADWD SPOILERS] Jaime

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I didn't like Jaime in this chapter. I think he reminded everyone he's still a Lannister, and he's still perpetrating the Lannister deception (if he wants to be upfront about it, then let him be upfront about it; stop using Cersei's wishes as an excuse).

That said, Lady Stoneheart is worse: a bloodthirsty, merciless spirit of vengeance (leading a bunch of bloodthirsty, merciless vagabonds). A truly terrifying figure.

Yes, I never understand what people like about Jaime . This guy is one of the most coward characters in the series .

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Yes, I never understand what people like about Jaime . This guy is one of the most coward characters in the series .

Jaime is guilty of a lot of bad things but being a coward isn't one of them.

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Jaime is guilty of a lot of bad things but being a coward isn't one of them.

Then how come he just doesn't admit that Cersei's kids are his too and just gets along with her bullshit .

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Then how come he just doesn't admit that Cersei's kids are his too and just gets along with her bullshit .

Because of the obvious implications of something like that. That would undo Tommen's hold on the iron throne and if that happened he'd just be breaking another of his oaths.

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Because of the obvious implications of something like that. That would undo Tommen's hold on the iron throne and if that happened he'd just be breaking another of his oaths.

Oh please , now you are just making excuses for him like all his apologists .

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He's upholding a vow for someone who's not rightfully king, by the laws of Westeros. He's willfully perpetuating deception and treason.

Yes, you're right that was the point I was trying to make .

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I wondered about the pennies, , I didn't know if there was an explanation I didn't know about.

I know most won't agree

with me but I was kind of shocked Jaime didn't want to go to Cersei-at least to see her one more time if she's going to be put to death. In spite of everything she's done, she's still his sister, his twin and the mother of his children. And also his closest surviving relative since he probable doesn't expect to ever see Tyrion again.

Why does Brienne look like she aged 10 years? Is it just because of everything she's gone through and the guilt she feels about having to trap Jaime? I did also think of her being undead but hope it isn't true-I would hate that.

And is Pod still alive and Lady Stoneheart and co kept him for a hostage? And if Brienne is trying to enlist Jaime to help save Pod, why didn't she just tell him that instead of making up that story about the Hound?

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I've noticed that a lot of characters who have been through a lot are described as having aged, or more commonly, their hair has turned white. Both Lancel and Theon were described as such. I thought it was kind of strange each time. I guess illness/torture/being re-animated takes the pigment out of hair? I don't know.

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I was very fascinated by Raventree and the huge old weirwood where the crows come to roost. Not only does it sound like a really cool old place, but with what we've learned in the Bran chapters I can't help but wonder what is behind the actions of crows and weirwoods. This place seems to be significant.

I'm glad Jamie didn't rush to Cersei's side. She's been screwing people and basically wrote him off. She doesn't deserve his love and only reached out to him when there was no where else to turn. I'm sure Jamie is aware of this and doesn't want to play her game anymore. He does seem to be having a hard time dealing with a lot of emotions right now, though. His attraction to the wench in the tent was interesting. Still, he is able to do what needs to be done, and smoothly too. I'm glad he's starting to feel a need to be honest. It would be good if he came clean...at the right time, anyway.

Brienne!! I love her and I'm so happy she is alive. I assume Pod is still alive or she wouldn't be luring Jamie into a trap. He seems pretty fucked at the moment. I'm crossing my fingers that between the two of them they will find a way to come out alive. Perhaps some sense can be talked into Stoneheart or else they can find a way to escape.

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He's upholding a vow for someone who's not rightfully king, by the laws of Westeros. He's willfully perpetuating deception and treason.

How is this "coward"?

I loved this chapter. Finally, we read about real Westeros again, real fleshed out characters that are entertaining, places we know and care about.

The surprise with Brienne at the end is interesting. I, too, wonder what will come of that.

I'm wondering if GRRM is gonna kill off Jaime just like that - from the literary perspective, everything he writes has to have some purpose. The whole build-up of Jaime's "redemption" and him coming to realize that he has to free himself from Cersei and to take on responsibilities would seem wasted if it led nowhere. Granted, he set the Riverlands to peace, but I feel he has a more important role to play before he dies (which well he may, sooner or later).

But, ultimately, who knows?

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Jaime is guilty of a lot of bad things but being a coward isn't one of them.

I have a tendency to agree with you. Jamie is not a coward simply because he is upholding a vow. After his release from custody in Riverrun by Catelyn Stark, we got a very clear idea of what Jamie thinks of oath-making and -breaking. IIRC, he essentially stated that it was inevitable for someone to break an oath sooner or later for having to uphold a wholly separate, albeit contradictory oath. That is not to say that he has not tried to reverse this ideology in recent books; however, I think it is safe to say that he does not think vows hold much weight.

On somewhat of a separate note, I think Jamie is pretty content with simply performing his duties as the Commander of the Kingsguard. Stirring up controversy and delaying peace by making it publicly known that he fathered all three kids with Cersei does not seem to make much sense in terms of benefit to the realm. He may not be facing the truth, but he is not running from it either. I think if the opportunity were to present itself - for instance, if Jamie was called to testify at court - then he would come out with the truth because his honor (however little of it he still has) would be at stake.

Whatever Jamie did before his capture in the Whispering Woods, he did for love of Cersei - much like how Ned made quite a few tough decisions based on his love for Catelyn and their children. I think everyone would agree that Ned is one of the most honorable characters in the whole series, and he only survived through 3/4 of the first book. Therefore, I think it is relatively easy for someone to sympathize with Jamie, but I do not blame those who choose not to. To each his own.

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I love the back and forth on this thread about Jaime. Especially since I go back and forth myself on thinking he's awesome and thinking he's a total sh!tface. When he starts talking sh!t about taking off the kids head, he's just playing his part. I don't think Jaime's quite ready to play the hero. I think, in reality, Jaime would be very slow to actually take the head of a child hostage.

Anyway, hooray for Brienne (who's name I've already pronounced Bree-en). I also don't see her betraying Jaime. I can't see her feeling too bound to this horrible ghost version of Cat.

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There's too much left for Jaime to do...this won't be his end.

That may include him killing Cersei, eventually. But I don't agree with this post:

i would love to see Jaime telling Tommen and Myrcella the truth but it will only be possible if (when??)Cersei dies, she would never let that happen otherwise. and right now her death is far away from happening (she is gonna win in her trial, im sure). but i do believe that the biggest thing Jaime still has to do is to kill Cersei somehow, i think he is the valonqar from the prophecy, not Tyrion.

During the prophecy made by Maggy, it's clear that Cersei will see ALL her children die before she is killed by the valonqar. It seems that Jaime is starting to really believe that telling the children about their parentage makes sense--he seems to want to be their father at this point. In fact, he's apparently feeling more loyalty to his children than to his sister. So I also imagine that both Myrcella and Tommen dying might actually be the thing to make drive Jaime to finish Cersei off. He does fit the "little brother" category after all.

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okay so in this chapter, Jaime mentions that the siege of Raven Tree Hall has been going for half a year.

There is also no word on whether Roslin Frey's baby has been born yet. So I am going to presume that it hasn't

This means that less than 9 months have passed since the Red Wedding.

and the Brackens had begun the siege of Raventree Hall by ASOS 72: Jaime 9, which according to Errant bard's timeline was on the 12/01/300.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Storm_of_Swords-Chapter_72

So it makes the Jaime chapter occur in approximately the 6th month of the year 300.

Now the final Jaime chapter in AFFC 44, (Jaime chapter 7) was said to have occured in 28/04/300 AFFC, which is nearly 5 months.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Feast_for_Crows-Chapter_44

So perhaps AFFC 44 happened a smidge later? Certainly when one tries to put the Sansa, Cersei and Davos chapters into order, problems surface.

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Jaime, wonderful. I hope this won't be his end, highly doubt it anyway.

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Ugh, as much as I like Brienne, I was kind of hoping she would be dead. Like, dead dead as in dead and not undead or anything else that is not considered being alive. GRRM has become so predictable.

I am convinced that Jaime is going to die pretty soon though. It would be sort of tragic if he is brought to justice for something that he didn't do, while he got away with so many other bad things.

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There seems to be a lot of thinking that Brienne will give Jaime up to save Pod. I know Brienne is noble and all that, but would she put Pod's life before Jaime's? I am not convinced. Then again, I may be wrong. I certainly don't believe she found Sansa, so there must be some plotting between the lines that I haven't quite got.

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