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Xray the Enforcer

[ADWD SPOILERS] Jon 10

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I cannot stand all these hypocrites in the NW. They have no problem that most of their "brothers" are criminals, murderers, rapists, etc., yet they keep fighting Jon's decisions to let wildings (who are just people who live N of the wall) across into safety and allow the ones who want to fight against the wights and Others just join the NW and help protect the relm. Get over yourselves, you ignorant fools!

I get more and more worried for Jon with each chapter. He is clearly making sound decisions in trying to help everyone, but these dolts just don't get it.

And Selyse is the most annoying character in these books. No wonder Stannis is such a grump.

And now I am worried that there is going to be an outbreak of greyscale at the Wall. So many dangers surrounding Jon and Ghost. :(

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Jon broke his vows when he interfered in political affairs south of the wall. He had no obligation to protect Alys Karstark. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he did it, it was the "right" thing to do but he still broke his vows. Sending a raven to Stannis to warn him of Arnolf's betrayal was a bigger violation in my mind. He could justify protecting a young lady. But now he has signed his name in open support of Stannis. Whoever sits the Iron Throne at the end of the game (if there still is an Iron Throne) will not be happy (unless its Stannis or one of his men).

I don't know that he has technically broken his vows with the things that he has done because there are justifications that could be made for most, if not all. But, he's coming dangerously close. As much as I think the wall needs Jon and the NW doesn't appreciate what he is doing to keep the wall and the realm safe, I don't think the Wall is the place for Jon. He's far to astute about political matters and strategy. He belongs in the world helping to save the realm. Although I don't know if he'll ever find a group of people who will recognize what good he is doing until it's too late.

I'm really starting to fear for his safety and I wish he would listen to Mel.

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One of Monster's two wet nurses is said to be a 14 year old girl as flat chested as a boy. How can she produce milk when she has no breasts? Sounds like she hasn't even reached puberty yet and she's a wet nurse? :huh:

Flat-chested doesn't mean no breasts, just small cup size. Breast size has no connection with ability to breastfeed or produce milk. Women with small breasts are just as capable of nursing and being wet nurses as women with large breasts. As long as she has flowered, she can both have a baby and breastfeed.

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Jon hasnt really violated his vows. His justification for imprisoning Aly's uncle is that he was coming to kidnap a higborne girl who had guest rights at Castle Black and one of their men also killed a black brother(not sure if it was before or after they started to capture them). That is why Jon goes to meet them south of Moles Town, so Cregen could not request bread and salt.

I agree that the wilding situation could not be considered as vow breaking. There is no mention in the "words" about the wildings, and its even been noted that Craster was a friend to the nights watch; Craster is a wildling. There has also been evidence of wildling and NW trade over at East Watch so I dont think that he is breaking his vows, rather that the other men of the NW just dont like it.

I suppose that the letters to Stannis could be considered as a violation, but I imagine that if the real was in a state of piece, and there was only one king, that the king would expect the NW to supply any information on treasons or plans of rebellion. With the realm in such chaos and numerous kings in it, I belive there are many shades of grey and that these letters could not justifiably be considered a violation to his vows. I also believe hes doing it in secret so no one knows about it,

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Why was Melisandre the one who presided over the marriage? Where was Septon Cellador?

I find it hard to believe that Magnar had agreed to a marriage. He didn't really like Jon. Besides, they're not even sure that Harrion (the true heir of Karhold, if I remember correctly) is dead, so the Magnar won't be a lord of anything until that has been proven, unless has Jon already promised a castle (one of the Wall's castles) to him?

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I am really uneasy about Alys. Something isn't right, and I think there is more to her situation than she's let on. I feel like there is some kind of betrayal/bad intention there. It just all seems... off, somehow. And when she said, "Karhold remembers," I got a really bad feeling. When someone says, "The North Remembers," it feels reassuring, but this did not. I mean, isn't there a lot of bad blood under the surface between the Starks and Karstarks in general? Can't put my finger on it, but this just made me so uncomfortable, and I've felt from the time she showed up, there was something fishy about Alys.

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"Under the sea the mermen feast on starship soup, and all the serving men are crabs." Does anyone know what this prophecy from Patchface means? Interesting that Meliandre doesn't like Patchface or the prophecy.

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"Under the sea the mermen feast on starship soup, and all the serving men are crabs." Does anyone know what this prophecy from Patchface means? Interesting that Meliandre doesn't like Patchface or the prophecy.

I can't help it, I always think he is talking about SpongeBob.

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"Under the sea the mermen feast on starship soup, and all the serving men are crabs." Does anyone know what this prophecy from Patchface means? Interesting that Meliandre doesn't like Patchface or the prophecy.

This was bothering me, too. The mermen are the Manderlys, and I seem to recall that one house's sigil is the Crab, but I can't remember who. The starfish reference escapes me, though. Any insights??

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I had a very terrible though after reading this chapter. What if Jon is really Azar Azai (or whatever his name was) and not Stannis. Mel has said that every time she askes to see A.A. in the fire, she sees only Jon. And what if the only way to wake up the sword is to kill the thing he (Jon) loves the most with it? Would that mean he would have to kill Ghost? I sure as heck hope GRRM doesn't go there!

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I am really uneasy about Alys. Something isn't right, and I think there is more to her situation than she's let on. I feel like there is some kind of betrayal/bad intention there. It just all seems... off, somehow. And when she said, "Karhold remembers," I got a really bad feeling. When someone says, "The North Remembers," it feels reassuring, but this did not. I mean, isn't there a lot of bad blood under the surface between the Starks and Karstarks in general? Can't put my finger on it, but this just made me so uncomfortable, and I've felt from the time she showed up, there was something fishy about Alys.

You just made me really nervous too! I've been taking everything at face value, but when I think about it, there are a lot of things that could go wrong here. I feel like Jon is doing a balancing act and something is about to crash down. I'm just not sure from which direction.

Why was Melisandre the one who presided over the marriage? Where was Septon Cellador?

I find it hard to believe that Magnar had agreed to a marriage. He didn't really like Jon. Besides, they're not even sure that Harrion (the true heir of Karhold, if I remember correctly) is dead, so the Magnar won't be a lord of anything until that has been proven, unless has Jon already promised a castle (one of the Wall's castles) to him?

I wondered the same thing. Why did they choose that type of ceremony? Is it because the Magnar had converted to that religion? I also was surprised that he was chosen to marry Alys, but during the ceremony he seemed to be happy about it, though a little nervous. It does seem like this was done to appease him besides helping Alys.

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This was bothering me, too. The mermen are the Manderlys, and I seem to recall that one house's sigil is the Crab, but I can't remember who. The starfish reference escapes me, though. Any insights??

House Crabb (out of Crackclaw Point, whence Nimble Dick from Brienne's story arc in AFFC) has a crab as sigil, but I doubt they're gonna be important. Who knows, though.

I find Jon's arc in this book to be somewhat tediously long with not that much happening, but I pretty much like the way it shows Jon getting more and more involved with Stannis out of necessity, even if it's not technically right for the Night's Watch to take sides. It's always "yeah well, we aren't supposed to, but it's only a small thing ...", but step by step this adds up to effectively supporting Stannis over Tommen. Somebody's not gonna like all that, I'd wager, and there will probably be more and more resistance, as the story progresses.

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I cannot stand all these hypocrites in the NW. They have no problem that most of their "brothers" are criminals, murderers, rapists, etc., yet they keep fighting Jon's decisions to let wildings (who are just people who live N of the wall) across into safety and allow the ones who want to fight against the wights and Others just join the NW and help protect the relm. Get over yourselves, you ignorant fools!

It is called 'xenophobia', and unfortunately these reactions from members of the Night's Watch have a very real parallel to a significant fraction of any society. This bias will haunt the NW, and it is only a matter of time before GRRM dishes out punishment.

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In this chapter, it is certain that Melisandre's idea of Azor Ahai is Dany. When she describes Azor Ahai and his rebirth, it describes Dany's awakening of the dragons WORD FOR WORD. She also talks about how A.A was born in Dragonstone, then Jon says "well Stannis was born in Storm's End" so... who else do we know was born in Dragonstone? yeah. Another fact is Dany sacrificed her lover Khal Drogo to awaken the dragons much like A.A sacrificed Nissa Nissa. This chapter helps us paint a clearer picture.

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House Crabb (out of Crackclaw Point, whence Nimble Dick from Brienne's story arc in AFFC) has a crab as sigil, but I doubt they're gonna be important. Who knows, though.

I find Jon's arc in this book to be somewhat tediously long with not that much happening, but I pretty much like the way it shows Jon getting more and more involved with Stannis out of necessity, even if it's not technically right for the Night's Watch to take sides. It's always "yeah well, we aren't supposed to, but it's only a small thing ...", but step by step this adds up to effectively supporting Stannis over Tommen. Somebody's not gonna like all that, I'd wager, and there will probably be more and more resistance, as the story progresses.

What about Lord Godric Berrell, Lord of Sweetsister? he and Davos shared that sister's stew. His sigil is a spider crab.They're supposed to be loyal to the Eyrie, and since LF is there right now, that means they are supposed to be supporting Tommen, not Stannis.

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Well, I love Jon as of late. I think Jon's always been on par with Ned as far as honor goes, but I think we're seeing here is a muturity here where he sees a bigger picture that's more important than the old ways of the NW. In this aspect, I think he's surpassing Ned in terms of blindly following honor (I know, sagrelige to speak against ned). He's definitely making some questionable decisions as far as the NW's role in things, but his game isn't too support Stannis, his game is to set the realm up to fight what's beyond the wall and helping Stannis just happens to work in his favor for that end. I think it's great and I love, love, love what he's doing with the wildlings (or the free folk as they liked be called).

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Jon is becoming a great leader and a wonderful tactician, in my opinion, but not a leader for the Night's Watch. It would be better if he had accepted Stannis offer earlier in the book. Because with the decisions he's making now, he's signing his own death sentence among the Night's Watch.

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Alys Karstark definitely wants to be Lord Snow's commander...

Interested to see what the return of Val + Tormund means for the group currently gathered at the Night's Watch. I have a feeling Jon is going to have to make a decision between protecting Val from Selyse's men or sitting back and not interfering. I think it's safe to say he'll make the first choice but I'm looking forward to seeing how everything plays out.

Melisandre's comment about Patchface also struck me as odd...hopefully some more light is shed on that subject.

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