[ADWD SPOILERS] Theon 1

[Joke]

I have trouble keeping track of the fostered Freys, mainly because "Little Walder is the big one", and "Big Walder is the little one".

What I do remember is that in an earlier book (probably CoK), one of them says that he's going to the Lord of the Crossing some day. The other says it's very unlikely, what with all the uncles and cousins ahead of him, and I think he also mentions that he's one of those cousins ahead of him in the succession order anyway.

Was it Big Walder who was dreaming of being Lord of the Crossing? And Little Walder who was ahead of him? So maybe Big Walder decided to take out the easiest competition -- Little Walder. That's just a start, of course, but Freys have been dropping like flies anyway.

I also forget which one had taken up with Ramsay and which was resisting.

[All-for-Joffrey]

* I believe that Big Walder killed Little Walder on Ramsay's orders. We saw in one of the earlier chapters that Little Walder was not a big fan of getting involved with Ramsay and his boys. Ramsay knew that this would ignite the already tense situation between the Freys and Manderleys. Ramsay knew something was going to happen as he came into the hall putting on his swordbelt.

I don't think Big Walder killed Little Walder, he actually seems like sort of a decent kid. As far back as ACOK I always got the vibe that Little Walder was the more rotten, nasty one from Bran's POVs and Theon's have confirmed it. Big Walder understands why Manderly would want to kill his family -- even if he doesn't relish it and doesn't play into the bastard's games, as Theon notes in an earlier Reek chapter.

Does anyone get the feeling that Melisandre only wants Theon so she can burn him for his Kings Blood? His burning would wake the Stone Dragon, and yet would NOT anger the Northmen because they hate Theon anyway. And unlike Mance Raydar, Theon is the blood of a real king, i.e. one of the 5 kings in the War of the 5 Kings.

I don't think Mel and Mance have any direct way of communicating with each other. Unless she sees it in her flames, I don't think she knows what Mance and his spearwives are up to and has no way of knowing they're with Theon and taking him back. I think taking Theon is all Mance's doing because he needs him to pull off the Jeyne rescue.

Also, keep on mind that Mel knows that Stannis has captured Asha at Deepwood Motte, who would obviously also suffice for king's blood from the same family, making it even more unnecessary for her to instruct Mance to take Theon. I do suspect that she'll want to burn Asha though -- and I think Stannis will let it happen. Hell, this book won't be done until someone with actual king's blood burns to wake a stone dragon (or an ice dragon?). It is known!

[ForgottenFace]

That's just a start, of course, but Freys have been dropping like flies anyway.

They are cursed now, what with the Red Wedding and the breaking of the guest right thing. I hope they all die in horrible deaths and that the other houses of the realm get to taste some of that delicious Frey pie.

I'm still on the fence, on wether to believe Big Walder killed Little Walder. He was covered in blood, but it might have been from holding his cousin's body before someone could carry it, or something. But there is something fishy in this.

I always loathed the Theon chapters, because I never really saw the purpose of the ironmen. Their chapters were always the longest and the most boring ones. But I am loving the Theon chapters in this book. I'm even rooting for him, he has suffered a lot with Ramsey Snow, but I hope he does get to suffer a little more with the Starks. At least until they discover that Bran and Rickon are alive. And then he would be allowed to join the Night's Watch (but I don't think that'll happen).

I can't wait to see what Jon says of Jeyne, if they ever get to the wall.

[Calibandar]

The Freys are fucked, even more when Bolton drops off as a power player, which I believe is in the cards. One his loose Northern alliance unravels, the Freys are wild game for all the Northern lords who hate them anyway. As they say, the North remembers.

Loved Wyman Manderly's line to Hosteen Frey about the young Frey boy getting killed. Priceless. For a moment there I thought Hosteen had killed Manderly, fortunately not.

As for Theon and Jeyne, of course they survived that fall. I wonder if we may see them in the following Asha chapter.

[Must Needs]

The book's getting exciting. Though GRRM is being the grossest he's ever been in this book - the hints at the 'things' Theon and Jeyne were made to do in the bedchamber, Jeyne saying she'd do anything she was asked, with anyone - or with the dog... urrrgh. Ramsay is outdoing Gregor Clegane in monstrousness.

[The Adequate Jon]

I thought the kinslayer line was interesting. There is a theory that one of the miller's boys was actually Theon's bastard because he slept with the miller's wife. Rowan knows Theon didn't kill his foster brothers, so what is she referring to with the kinslaying line? How would she know Theon slept with the miller's wife?

[witless chum]

How does Rowan know that Theon didn't kill the actual Starks?

[The Adequate Jon]

She heard him praying and talking about needing the heads of the miller's boys. Though, now I think I may have misread that part.

[winteriscoming73]

This chapter is one of the reasons I love this series. I hated Theon Turncloak. Now, however, Martin has me feeling sympathetic towards him. The Reek/ Theon chapters are some of the best written in this book.

I definitely agree. I've really enjoyed his story in this book.

[JD44Irish]

What an exciting chapter, must read faster! I'm actually cheering for Theon (or maybe it's Jeyne), who would have thunk it ^^

I know Martin is not one for happy endings, but I don't think even he is evil enough to let Ramsay catch them again.

I also had to stop reading after this chapter... but thats because GRRM had to give me ANOTHER Dany chapter. Seriously, 2 out of 3?

[JD44Irish]

So whose the murderer? Is it supposed to be painfully obvious or do we have no clue?

The victims have all been Freys or Dreadfort men so that suggests Manderly and he didn't deny it when confronted.

Mance (Able) and the spearwives seem to have the best opportunity, but why would they do it, Mance isn't a northern loyalist.

It could also be Roose or Ramsay, though again the motive seems muddled (not that it would matter w/ Ramsay).

My crackpot theory... its the ghosts of Winterfell. Its Brandon and Rickon Stark's ghosts unleashed from their crypts and they are slowly taking revenge on those who betrayed their family. Probably no chance, but its a fun theory.

[A Redeemed Hound]

So whose the murderer? Is it supposed to be painfully obvious or do we have no clue?

The victims have all been Freys or Dreadfort men so that suggests Manderly and he didn't deny it when confronted.

Mance (Able) and the spearwives seem to have the best opportunity, but why would they do it, Mance isn't a northern loyalist.

It could also be Roose or Ramsay, though again the motive seems muddled (not that it would matter w/ Ramsay).

My crackpot theory... its the ghosts of Winterfell. Its Brandon and Rickon Stark's ghosts unleashed from their crypts and they are slowly taking revenge on those who betrayed their family. Probably no chance, but its a fun theory.

I was wondering if Bran was the ghost of Winterfell. Maybe warging into something or someone to kill another?

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

who was that guy that Theon met outside the Hall when he was just wondering around? that he thought could be the killer?

"I'll do what he wants, with him or or....the dog." WHAT THE FUCK?

Oh and manderly's a fucking boss.

[Lady Pumpkinhead]

The book's getting exciting. Though GRRM is being the grossest he's ever been in this book - the hints at the 'things' Theon and Jeyne were made to do in the bedchamber, Jeyne saying she'd do anything she was asked, with anyone - or with the dog... urrrgh. Ramsay is outdoing Gregor Clegane in monstrousness.

I agree that Ramsay > Gregor. Especially because we get to see it all up, close and personal. Just thinking about the little flaying knife gives me the shivers! With Gregor, his awfulness is mostly told to us second hand -- 15 years ago he dashed the babe's head against the wall, and so on. Getting to experience Ramsay's cruelty first hand through sad little Reek is truly painful. Feeling squeamish right now!

[Sword of the North]

Good thing Manderly had what, 4 chins? Would have died with only one. And his line about growing up a Frey was awesome too.

The Reek/Theon chapters have been my favorite so far in ADWD, but everytime a Dany/other PoV from across the sea shows up, I get pissed. Theon has always been one of my favorite characters in the series, and his changes, from a somewhat cocky kid, to a scared kid in over his head, to a ghost of a human, and now maybe the man that he wanted to be.

And I liked how the last line said Theon, not He, Reek, or any other name.

[Howlin' Reed]

Charming.

[FuliginEyes]

I really hope that Stannis is not going to win this at Winterfell. It just seems so unbelievable that it could happen – he does have some Northmen, but a whole lot of Southron men too who have almost been beaten by the ongoing snow. Bolton’s forces are most all Northmen, who know what they are doing. And Stannis, with his Red God, irks me so much.

Theon was great in this chapter though. The whole thing has me on the edge of my seat. I think they have definitely survived the jump from the wall, but what happens to them from there; who knows?

[Tyrant89]

I'm absolutely loving Theon's chapters, he's been the most intriguing character in the book so far. I've no doubt he and Jeyne survived the fall. By the way, has anyone noticed Theon's memories and thoughts on the miller's wife? He was thinking about her breasts, sweet mouth, etc. and right away he reflected that these are "joys that I will never taste again", which means at least to me without a shadow of a doubt that he had really been gelded.

[Peter Woolshirt]

As for Ramsay walking in putting on his swordbelt - they've just had a raven from somewhere. Theon sees Roose and Ramsey arguing, notes the raven and the wet parchment, but cannot hear them. The raven comes before the discovery of Little Walder's body, and before Roose sends the Freys and Manderlys out via opposite gates.

Wasn't the raven from one of Roose's scouts telling him exactly where Stannis's army was snowbound? 'Lord Bolton unrolled the parchment. "His host lies not three days' ride from here, snowbound and starving."' What's not clear to me is whether Roose is sending his entire host after Stannis, or just the Manderleys and the Freys. If it's the latter, then bye-bye, Freys.

[Lord Jon Connington]

I think the Dreadfort men were murdered by the spearwives. Most of the bodies were found naked (including the fool with his cock in his mouth). I figure they were trying to rape the women and they got killed for it. Little Walder was prolly killed by Manderly men. Some retribution for the son of Manderly that was murdered at the red wedding.