[ADWD SPOILERS] Theon 1

[King Bread]

I have to say I really liked Theon's storyline so far, probably the best in this book, despite of all this terrible things which happened in it (99% of it things done by Ramsay). Finally he thinks of himself as Theon again and I hope he and Jeyne will get away from the Boltons. I think the snow should be high enough that they can't be tracked by cavalry, but still it's hard for me to imagine that they both can escape them. I just hope GRRM can for one time be no cruel man. I wonder where Theon could go now? Will he really go to Stannis? Then he would have all the bloody Freys right in his back. I think Night's Watch or Torrhen's Square might be more likely. Then again he has no food etc for such distances.

So Roose decides to head out and fight Stannis in the field. Sending the Manderlys and Freys out for this can turn in favor to Stannis, since Davos should already be up to his search for Rickon. But Stannis' host must be heavily weakened by the storm, I fear Stannis' final defeat.

This murder stuff is really weird. Until now I thought it was Mance's doing, but with them denying it I am not so sure anymore. Could just be many unrelated murders by differently persons. I wonder if GRRM has dropped some hints in Theon's chapters. Maybe there are really ghosts but I can't imagine it. I was thinking that Bran might have learned to warg at far distances, but I think that would be too much in such a short time and how should he know about the situation between all this northerners and Freys. Weird weird.

I didn't get the kinslayer thing. Theon didn't kill any kin? Ok, the miller's sons could be bastards, but how would the spearwives know? Besides of that I doubt that the timeline would fit. Or was it just symbolic due to his relationship with the Stark children?

And yes, Manderly and his constant mocking of the Freys is absolute priceless, he is really passionate at it.

[PetrusOctavianus]

I didn't get the kinslayer thing. Theon didn't kill any kin? Ok, the miller's sons could be bastards, but how would the spearwives know? Besides of that I doubt that the timeline would fit. Or was it just symbolic due to his relationship with the Stark children?

This had me wondering too. Both the hooded man and two (I think) of the spearwives call him kinslayer. Especially Rowan, who is tall and lean and thus matches Osha's description, seems to have a personal grudge against Theon for being a kinslayer and for using the Stark words. She can't be Osah, but why would a random (?) wildling woman care so much about Theon using the Stark words?

[Aryador]

This had me wondering too. Both the hooded man and two (I think) of the spearwives call him kinslayer. Especially Rowan, who is tall and lean and thus matches Osha's description, seems to have a personal grudge against Theon for being a kinslayer and for using the Stark words. She can't be Osah, but why would a random (?) wildling woman care so much about Theon using the Stark words?

My thoughts exactly.

Why do the Wildling women care at all about what happened between Theon and the Starks? How come they despise Theon for what he did there? From all that we know, Starks are nothing to the Wildlings. They are, if the Wildlings know them at all, the enemy at the other side of the wall.

So why would Rowan lecture Theon? Why would they even know so many details about what happened here before? Doesn't make any sense to me.

About the whole kinslayer thing: Well, let's assume they do know what happenend here, one could argue that in a society like the Wildling one, foster brothers are like brothers. A clan has to hold together, otherwise you'll all die.

[Lady Snark]

I get why Rowan was ragging on Theon calling him a kinslayer. In their eyes, the Starks were essentially family since Theon grew up with them and everyone believes that Theon actually did kill Bran and Rickon. And a kinslayer is considered just about the lowest of the low. It seems even if you have a good reason to kill a relative, people are going to look down on you if you kill your kin.

What a great chapter, though. I was so mad at Jeyne for screaming! WTF? I felt horrible that the kick-ass wildling chicks were getting killed. If not for them and Mance, Theon and Jeyne would still be Ramsay's play things. I hope at least a couple of them make it out of there.

I wonder who killed the last kid? I took it as Mance & the spearwives were doing all the other killings, but that 9 year old boy was not their kill. Someone else did that one. Probably Ramsay. I could see that sadistic freak also having a thing for little boys.

[SeanF]

After this chapter, and "Frey Pie" Lord Wyman Manderly is definitely one of my favourite characters.

[Tammy]

Loved this chapter! Finally Theon defies Ramsay! Excellent!

Notes on this chapter:

* I believe that Big Walder killed Little Walder on Ramsay's orders. We saw in one of the earlier chapters that Little Walder was not a big fan of getting involved with Ramsay and his boys. Ramsay knew that this would ignite the already tense situation between the Freys and Manderleys. Ramsay knew something was going to happen as he came into the hall putting on his swordbelt.

* So I was wrong and Stannis is outside the gates. Did he not use trumpets at Deepwood Motte though?

* Loved Theon and Jeyne's leap of faith at the end!

* Manderley's line about growing up a Frey was AWESOME!

That makes perfect sense about Big Walder. I was wondering why Ramsay all of a sudden seemed so in control of himself at that point, so if he was the instigator he would have of course not been out of control.

Love Manderley; he probably won't make it out of there alive though.

I'm worried about Mance - I don't want him to end up at the end of one of Ramsay's flaying knives even if he seemed unbothered by it.

[The Turncloak]

Wasn't the raven from one of Roose's scouts telling him exactly where Stannis's army was snowbound? 'Lord Bolton unrolled the parchment. "His host lies not three days' ride from here, snowbound and starving."' What's not clear to me is whether Roose is sending his entire host after Stannis, or just the Manderleys and the Freys. If it's the latter, then bye-bye, Freys.

I believe it is just the Manderleys and the Freys, this would explain why Roose and his son were arguing (obviously Ramsey would want to go with them and his father wouldn't allow it.This also explains him buckling his sword belt.) Just my theory. Best arc in the book by far!

[Antoinetta]

Theon I hated in the beginning, but i am beginning to admire his courage. His sister i can not stand. Unless, she does something that doesn't make me want to drown her myself. :/

[Myrddin]

I wonder if there is another "ghost" in Winterfell, a survivor.

[DanyStark]

This may be my favorite chapter so far! Why?

1. "Though mayhaps this was a blessing. Had he lived, he would have grown up to be a Frey." Wyman Manderly has balls. Then the Frey/ Manderly battle that followed.

2. Stannis is coming!

3. Poor Jeyne it rhymes with pain. "....or with the dog.." How fucked up can Ramsay get?

4. The spearwives rock my world.

[abaddon82]

I bet the raven was something about Moat Cailin being crossed by Sansa and Littlefinger, it fits with the timeline. I think it is somebody we don't know about in Winterfell who has been killing all the Freys/Boltons, some outsider, but I can't seem to think of who it might be.

[LTH80]

man, there was like ...multiple story lines going on here.... the murders, Manderly's betrayal of the Boltons/Freys, Stannis coming, Theon/jeyne and there escape and now the spearwives and Mance!!!

I wonder what is going to happen now that the Manderly's and Frey's rode out. At first I think Manderly will turn on the Freys when they reach Stannis' camp, then I think that is too obvious and the Frey's will be waiting and watching -they know they are enemies. How can they take them by surprise? And of course treachery runs deep in the Freys, maybe they'll turn on the Manderly first! I would be so mad if that happened and that's why I think it'll happen lol He's just cruel that way.

How many Frey's were in Winterfell???

White Harbour has 200 foot and 100 knights right? That isn't very much. If Manderly was plotting against the Frey's I'd think he has a better plan than that - He must be planning something a little more 'sure win' than that. Getting locked up in a castle in the middle of the north badly outnumbered was a pretty bad spot for him to be in.

[Wise Westerosi]

Me too. Hopefully while shouting to all the sundry Northmen that Arya Stark has escaped, further fracturing the Bolton host.

I wonder if Theon ever showed Mance and the spearwives where the crypts are? Mance asked about it in the last Winterfell chapter. Here's hoping some of them have escaped to hide there.

Despite their contempt for kneelers, they seemed to have a healthy, if grudging respect for the Starks and Stark words.

I think that Little Walder was Ramsay's creature, while Big Walder was the one of the pair who was less apt to participate in Ramsay's cruelties. IIRC, in one of the Reek chapters Little Walder throws his horse's reins to Reek, who makes that note, while Big Walder goes to take care of his own horse.

As for Ramsay walking in putting on his swordbelt - they've just had a raven from somewhere. Theon sees Roose and Ramsey arguing, notes the raven and the wet parchment, but cannot hear them. The raven comes before the discovery of Little Walder's body, and before Roose sends the Freys and Manderlys out via opposite gates.

Something's up and I'm trying to figure out what it is. Could Davos have returned with Rickon? Could the castellan at White Harbor have sent a "celebrate! Rickon is alive!" message? That does not seem likely, but I'm not sure that there's much else that could precipitate that confrontation we witnessed. Maybe Rickon and Shaggydog are marching on Winterfell with a cannibal host.

Maybe that was Lady Mormont and Lord Glover sending a raven letter about Robb's true heir -- which could be Jon. That would put a damper on Bolton plans for the north.

On another note, all the evidence shows that spearwives were the ones killing around Winterfell. Except Little Walder who was killed by his cousin, judging by all the blood splatter on himself.

The Theon arc and chapters were my favourite in this book.

[Dark14]

What made everyone(book readers) hate Theon in the first place? He didn't betray the Starks he was just trying to prove himself to his father. He could have done all the bad stuff to Winterfell/Bran/Rickon but didnt.

[Refuge]

Am I the only one who doesn't think it's Stannis and his host outside the gates? They were broken and weak and starving. Could this be Rickon/Osha/Davos with a host from somewhere? Or someone else? Sansa/Littlefinger as someone suggested? Awesome chapter.

[Moester]

I agree with a post someone made on another Theon chapter, that the title of his POVs switches from him to being Reek to being somewhere between Reek and Theon to finally being Theon again in the end.

I think it was the spearwives who killed those men, I remember the way Bran and co. escaped Winterfell. Didn't they trick some guards along the way? Perhaps Mance wanted some information, and you can usually get good gossip from a drunk soldier or some soldier who one of the spearwives probably flirted/f*cked with first before killing.

Little Walder and Big Walder are very confusing! But I reread the chapters, Little Walder was the nastier one. So glad he's out of the picture now.

who was that guy that Theon met outside the Hall when he was just wondering around? that he thought could be the killer?

"I'll do what he wants, with him or or....the dog." WHAT THE FUCK?

Oh and manderly's a fucking boss.

When I read that I was thoroughly disgusted!

ETA: I don't think anyone would care, but I was saddened to hear that Old Nan is dead. I know there was a slim chance of her surviving but I was still holding out hope that she was okay.

[Forelver]

Good thing Manderly had what, 4 chins? Would have died with only one. And his line about growing up a Frey was awesome too. The Reek/Theon chapters have been my favorite so far in ADWD, but everytime a Dany/other PoV from across the sea shows up, I get pissed. Theon has always been one of my favorite characters in the series, and his changes, from a somewhat cocky kid, to a scared kid in over his head, to a ghost of a human, and now maybe the man that he wanted to be. And I liked how the last line said Theon, not He, Reek, or any other name.

I loved your comment about the four chins, you never know what's going to come in handy in these books!

I still have trouble liking Theon because of those two miller's boys-and I keep thinking about their family and how they must have felt. But I did find myself cheering when he found the courage to help Jeyne-I was on the edge of my seat during the whole chapter.

The spearwives kept saying they weren't responsible for the Walder murder-so did that mean they were taking responsibility for the other murders?

[Tyrionthebest]

I loved your comment about the four chins, you never know what's going to come in handy in these books!

I still have trouble liking Theon because of those two miller's boys-and I keep thinking about their family and how they must have felt. But I did find myself cheering when he found the courage to help Jeyne-I was on the edge of my seat during the whole chapter.

The spearwives kept saying they weren't responsible for the Walder murder-so did that mean they were taking responsibility for the other murders?

Who cares about two nameless characters that we haven't even met in the books ? Sandor has been forgiven even though he killed that Micah boy .

[voodooqueen126]

Asha wants to use him to invalidate the Kingsmoot, but in his current state is that possible?

[Misty]

I'm absolutely loving Theon's chapters, he's been the most intriguing character in the book so far. I've no doubt he and Jeyne survived the fall. By the way, has anyone noticed Theon's memories and thoughts on the miller's wife? He was thinking about her breasts, sweet mouth, etc. and right away he reflected that these are "joys that I will never taste again", which means at least to me without a shadow of a doubt that he had really been gelded.

There was no doubt in my mind that he had been gelded from the chapter where he said something about bolton removing fingers, toes, and "that other thing." Doesn't seem like it could be anything else, and there have been many other "hints" since then.