[ADWD SPOILERS] Cersei 2

[Sansa_Stark]

This punishment is not satisfactory at all. It serves nothing. It only satisfies the desire for revenge at its basest. But true justice?

The fact that many people on this forum are not comfortable with the punishment (rather than feeling sorry for Cersei, this is what it's really about), because it doesn't fit the true crime.

Cersei's true crimes are:

- letting her fucked-up son stay... well, fucked-up. Not seeing that he is sick, cruel, she lets Joffrey get away with everything. That is wrong.

- giving people away to Qyburn for his torturous experiments; torturing the singer

- bullying a whole lot of female people at court, including Sansa

- there are more. But for this, she would have deserved the chop; or if there was a female equivalent of sending people to the Wall, she'd deserve that. Maybe a whole life in the Quiet Isle? Something like that.

But what she has been subjected to is wrong because it is so sexist. I don't usually side in with the feminists, but this time, we should: the crimes she is accused of are female-only crimes. A man committing the same crimes would get away with them. She has essentially only been punished for sleeping around. Not for having sex to suit her own purposes. Just for having sex with someone not her husband. That's all.

And the punishment exploits her female vulnerabilities.

I think in the 21st century, we are all attached to the idea of the punishment fitting the crime. And the discomfort here is that it doesn't.

To top it all off, once the walk is finished and Cersei is safe, she is free to go back to her old self and spread more nonsense over the world. Having only suffered emotional scars, she has not been punished in the way that other such as Theon (complete mutilation and torture), or even Davos (fingers cut off) or Jorah Mormont (sent into exile) have been. She got off lightly.

Ser Lucamore wasn't castrated and sent to the wall for having mistresses?

Nah, the punishments happens for both genders depending on their position.

Whores aren't punished simply for being whores in Westeros. But a queen cannot just sleep around. And neither can a knight of the Kingsguard. I don't think the walk was as misogynistic as people claim.

[oxgirl]

Myrish - a good observation/comparison of the scene. I think it's typical of GRRM that even when someone has to pay for their crimes, it's done in a way to make the reader feel uncomfortable about it. I do disagree that she deserves to die though. More fitting for someone so cruel in the pursuit of power to let her spend the rest of her days imprisoned and watch the future of Westeros unfold with no involvement in it at all.

Really not sure where Cersei goes from here. Even if FrankenGregor wins, I don't know how she can stay in King's Landing or hold any position of power back at the Rock.

Yeah, and I think Qyburn was having a bit of fun with it too. It reminds me of what the maegi said to Dany about how Drogo will be Drogo again when the sun rises in the west and sets in the east.

[jbent87]

I wholly support this statement. JFC, this rotten city. I hope it will be completely done for when everything is said and done. Burned down or taken by Others or just abandoned, I don't care. The future King/Queen of Westeros can rule just as well from any of the other seats and if the Queen in the end is Dany, she can found a new city.

I love this. Let King's Landing become the next forgotten/blown to Hell city of Westeros. When ships pass by Blackwater Bay there will just be ruins inland. Not sure how it will all happen, guess it would have to be all of the wildfire underneath the city getting ignited somehow - Dany's dragons? - but having that happen toward the end of the story is too good/almost prophetic to be true, IMO.

Why does everyone seem to think that Sandor will be championing against Ungregor? Cersei's arc isn't done yet, so it's doubtful Ser Gregor will lose, so if it is Sandor it will result in him being revealed as alive only to get killed. I think the Faith's champion will be Lancel or that random knight who escorted Cersei during her walk of shame. Then in TWOW Cersei will send Ungregor to Winterfell to stop Sansa retrieving her birthright. That's when Sandor v Gregor is gonna go down.

I think this is a pretty awesome theory too. I have a hard time believing that The Faith will see Robert Strong and automatically want to summon the retired, grave-digging Hound to take up this challenge as their champion. However, with where we're lead to believe Sandor is currently residing, a throwdown in Winterfell with crossing paths along the way somewhere int he Riverlands seems a little more likely - also has some sort of redemption in there for Sandor and his odd affection he had for Sansa and his relationship with Arya from the earlier books. More and more as this thing comes to a close we will get closer to ultimate redemption for House Stark, IMO. This could just be one example of that. The North Remembers.

[jbent87]

Also, I think the women are a little too quick to defend Cersei and lambaste GRRM for sexism re: Cersei stuff. The woman is Ramsay Bolton-level evil. She has so much more to atone for, a walk through the streets of KL getting insults and rocks and rotted vegetables thrown at her isn't anywhere near justified repercussions for her actions.

ALTHOUGH...

I only say this because we've seen GRRM do it before; if she does atone for her sins and achieves self-awareness of the evil she has done and makes efforts to fix those things somehow - I have no idea how/what she could do - I could maybe get on board with her redemption story. I would say there is about a 1% chance of that happening thoug, she makes for too great of a villain.

[Winnief]

I've never had a problem with the abuse that gets thrown at Cersei's way-I just wish it wasn't gender-based, because a. Misogyny and b. Lazy. Cersei's failings as a human being are so much more profound and horrific than "she's a bitch and a whore," you know what I mean?

I didn't feel the least bit sorry for Cersei in this chapter even though it wasn't the appropriate punishment, because it was entirely the result of her own evil schemes backfiring.

I *did* feel sorry for all the other women of Westeros who are now going to have to face more of this sort of fundamentalist misogyny because stupid Cersei rearmed the Faith.

[Nym sand]

I am sure that qypern told cersie in affc that the mountain is dead !! did I miss something ??? or did he frankenstined him ??? how ?? there is now electricty no strong scinecs to do this only simple material

and thought I hate cersei so much and I think she deserft all this humilation but I really felt uncomfortable reading this chapter !!

I kept remembring my self how she react to sansa when she refused and ran when she came to tell her about her wedding about all the evil things that she said and did so I can hold my self from feeling sad for her >