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[ADWD SPOILERS] The Kingbreaker


Xray the Enforcer

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Did I miss something here or did Selmy just confirm that Ned and Ashara had a still born child together? Does that confirm that Jon is actually Lyanna's son?

And yeah, Selmy is a badass indeed :)

The only thing we found out for sure in this chapter was that Ser Barristan was in love with Ashara Dayne. I think that the still born child was thrown in to make us wonder was the child really still born or did Selmy only think that and the child was in fact Jon. As we learned in this book not all dead (children) are really dead. But I am not inclined to think it was Jon but really a still born child. But not Ned's so much as Brandon's. Again as we learned in this book Brandon deflowered at least one maiden of noble birth. Plus Selmy never said Ned Stark, he just said Stark.

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I'm sure that house Dayne wasn't the only one with blond and deep blue eyes, Varys probably had no problems finding someone with those traits. Not to mention that Ashara Dayne would have probably been far away from King's Landing.

Also yes, Selmy did confirm that Ashara and Ned were lovers and had a stillborn child.

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Also yes, Selmy did confirm that Ashara and Ned were lovers and had a stillborn child.

Where did he confirm that? His thoughts are: "If I had unhorsed Rhaegar and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty, might she have looked to me instead of Stark?"

But I just noticed rereading, Ashara's baby is a girl ("But Ashara’s daughter had been stillborn"), so I was wrong thinking we were maybe being led to theorize how the baby could have been Jon.

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Did I miss something here or did Selmy just confirm that Ned and Ashara had a still born child together? Does that confirm that Jon is actually Lyanna's son?

And yeah, Selmy is a badass indeed :)

This is how I took it, that Ned did in fact father a bastard with Ashara, but that was a girl who was still-born.

Loving Selmy!

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I think this is the first decision Selmy's ever made that made any sense. Maybe he's learning. He's young yet.

But beating a sleepy, undisciplined, bareskinned, arakh-wielder ain't really badass.

As for Ashara and her daughter... since we all know that baby-swapping was in that year, why be hung up on the word daughter. With the exception of the person who pulled the baby out and Ashara (who's either dead, Quaith or Lemore) who would know if it was a boy or a girl? Matter of fact, better to conceal the baby's gender if you're going to use it for ulterior motives.

Not that I have any crazy theories yet, but I'll need to find someone for Young Griff to be that isn't Aegon, and this was a likely starting point even before this chapter.

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Where did he confirm that? His thoughts are: "If I had unhorsed Rhaegar and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty, might she have looked to me instead of Stark?"

But I just noticed rereading, Ashara's baby is a girl ("But Ashara’s daughter had been stillborn"), so I was wrong thinking we were maybe being led to theorize how the baby could have been Jon.

Notice that it is never said WHICH Stark. Everyone is merely assuming it is Ned. Might it be referring to Ned's brother instead? From earlier in the book it sounded like he might have been a real ladies man...

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Loved this chapter. Selmy's interrogation of Hizhdar was awesome. Badass single combat, too.

I found all the Ashara/Rhaegar/Lyanna stuff difficult to parse. Ashara had a stillborn child (daughter) from a Stark, but maybe not Ned, as Ned is never mentioned by name in the chapter.

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I think it was Ned. Ashara supposedly jumped into the sea after Ned delivered her dawn. It was possibly grieve over her brother's death, the stillborn girl, and ned's refusal to elope with her. Mayhaps Brandon was her lover, but I think it's Ned. Brandon has been dead for some time, and She didn't jump off the cliff until Ned showed up with Dawn. This convinces me that Ned was her lover, and the father of their stillborn daughter. R+L still equals J. This I think is a separate case. Eddard got extremely angry when Catelyn questioned Jon's parentage and mentioned Ashara Dayne as the mother. He's angry not just because he wants to honor Lyanna's last words, but also because of his love of Ashara and his wish to keep that secret.

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By the gods, when he bathed and put on all his white and gave in to memories I began to shiver and didn't stop till the chapter's end. I was all like "don't you DARE to die!" and thankfully, he proved to be über badass.

Awww, poor Barristan for loving Ashara. So he DID indeed have a love.

Somehow this conspiracy scene reminded me of the Act II of Julius Caesar, the night gathering at Brutus' house.

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Wow, reading this then coming in here I thought "where to start" but it seems this thread has gone in one specific direction! Selmy confirms again that Rhaegar loved Lyanna, it wasn't just her beauty, but again no hint of how Lyanna felt/if she reciprocated. I'm sure he also mentioned Ned in a previous chapter, but not this one; he specifically said "Stark". That is a very deliberate vagueness, which hints at the possibility of Ashara and Brandon. Because Ashara has always been associated with Ned in the past that's the conclusion we're likely meant to make.

I still reckon R&L=J, however if Jon were Brandon's son- would that have made him the rightful heir to Winterfell? Or not, since he'd still have been a bastard?

Barristan is just awesome, so much I loved about this chapter and his character, his back story just alludes to so many of the as yet unspoken rumours and stories. That alone makes him a very interesting POV.

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I was definitely worried that Selmy was going to die this chapter. The chapter gave all the signs of being a farewell POV. Of course that in itself was a bit of misdirection in this case. I'm still worried that he won't survive the book. We're nearly finished with no significant deaths. Cersei seems to have gotten out of her predicament. Both Davos and Theon's supposed deaths from previous books have turned out to be false. Baby Aegon's death has been revealed to be false AND not an existing character. Brienne made it off the noose. Even Mance's death turned out to be false. Ser Robert Strong very well may be (mostly) Gregor. Even secondary characters that were on deaths door didn't bite it. Jojen hasn't croaked yet (though he almost surely isn't making it back), and even Belwas survived the poisoning.

Someone has to die, right? Perhaps it will be Quentyn, now that he released the Dragons, but I think Selmy's unfortunately high on the deathwatch list too.

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