[ADWD SPOILERS] Jon 13

[Lawrence Lawson]

I must be one of the only people who don't really think his death was "cheesy". Whether or not he'll be brought back in some way is irrelevant, the writing was on the wall for him with the way he was disregarding the advice of his Brothers. As funny and endearing as his bro-mance with Tormund was (a character that I do like, don't get me wrong), Jon was far too much of a wildling to stay LC. He ignored the both the advice of Mel and the intuition of Ghost (flashbacks to Robb chaining up Grey Wind at the Twins) and was about to blatantly breaks his vows over a bullshit letter. You just can't do that when you're the Lord Commander, your duty is to the Wall.

I liked his character well enough and am hoping he comes back in some form, but this mutiny really doesn't surprise me. Reading his chapters was almost like reading Ned floundering around in Kings Landing all over again.

Absolutely agree with every point here. Well written (said)!!

[NW Deserter]

Sorry, maybe I misspoke. I think many of Jon's decisions were good ones, however that doesn't mean I was surprised by his men turning on him. It was foreshadowed pretty explicitly.

[blasted_saber]

He may be dead, but he'll come back as AA if he is. Mel's chapter points to this IMO.

pg. 408 - "The red priestess shuddered. Blood trickled down her thigh, black and smoking" - Mel's blood smokes as Jons does. Perhaps an effect of being one of R'hllor's chosednones?

pg. 408 - "Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man" - This is how the flames are depicting Jon.

pg. 408 - "I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor only shows me Snow"

So, It appears to me Jon will Warg into Ghost, then return to a mans body, as he is AA.

[Domenceus]

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[Ivy Snow]

I hate you GRRM, why do you have to do that to Jon just when he's finally going to do something interesting and stop counting the turnips for winter? T_T

Anyway, I love Jon's character and I'm a fan. I don't think ( and I pray I'm right) that he is dead. Like Brienne's POV in AFFC, it was left hanging. It was obvious that Brienne wasn't dead yet, almost died but didn't. I don't think Jon died, he probably fainted from loss of blood. Hopefully the wildlings will help him.

In reference to the AA prophesy, it may well fit Jon. Danny was too obvious to be AA, knowing GRRM, I don't think he will stick to Danny, it's just too cheesy and obvious. He might have been using Danny for us to not see Jon as AA ( we eventually did anyway). Jon on the other hand is more mysterious, his parentage is unknown, him being warg, the dreams he was having and what Mel sees in the fire whenever she asks Rhollor to show her AA but only sees Jon is a clue, IMO.

Or AA could be Hodor.. lol..

But I do hope that Jon lives. I most likely think he will survive and Mel will indeed play a big part. I hope they wont kill Ghost =(.

[LannisterStark]

I know for a 100% fact that Jon Snow is NOT dead. I've figured it out.

[eyeheartsansa]

Poor Jon. I'm pretty sure he will stay dead and he is not AA. I don't see Melisandre sacrificing herself or forcing some kind of resurrection. That seems cheesy and cheapens the story, not to mention a wasted effort because wouldn't they just kill him again sooner or later?

Agree with whoever said he was a good LC in making unpopular but necessary decisions, but ultimately was not able to bring people together as was needed. Very tragic and very much like Ned. I'll have to go back and read all the Jon chapters again to get a better grasp of the circumstances.. there was lots more going on than 'counting turnips.'

[Windchaser]

At the end of this chapter I was completely stunned. I'd seen how impopular Jon had become with his own men, but Mel's stabbing vision happening like this?

What a horrid cliffhanger to end his POV in this book on. Taking in everyone else's theories, I hope he really was just seriously injured, but that Mel's powers can heal him (maybe he wargs into Ghost during the recovery period to spare himself too much pain?)

But I will think of him as...slightly, somewhat dead. Better to assume the worst and then be squealing with happiness when he comes out of this alive (not UnJon please) when the next book comes out in a few years.

I'd caught that bit with Mel only seeing Jon when trying to see Azor Azai too, but...does he really have to die and become a zombie for that?

The first thing that I recalled which made me decide Stannis isn't dead as Ramsay boasts is how he was meeting up with that banker guy, maybe making a sweet deal of some sorts. You'd think the banker would do what he could to keep Stannis alive after that. Ramsay's boasts about having his sword makes me wonder though.

(I feel kind of bad for Mance though. Seems such a sad fate for such a cocky character.)

[Jon Stark Targaryen]

Jon cannot be dead. If he is dead then GRRM, you are not the author I thought you were. Their is so much centering around him. This has to be another test/trial he goes through to forge him into the Lord and Ruler he WILL be. All I have to say at this place is damn you GRRM for ending Jon's ADWD POV this way.

[Branna]

I thought I would just share GRRM's comments in an interview regarding Jon's "death":

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: So why did you kill Jon Snow?

GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: Oh, you think he’s dead, do you?

rest of it is here

http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/07/21/dance-with-dragons-shocking-twist-g/

[Calesta]

I belive that Jon is AA and that he will be reborn at dragon stone (proably Mel with her fire as he is to be reborn in smoke and fire) I am wondering about the part where the AA is supposed to bring the stone dragons to life, will it be the actual stone dragons (adding more dragons to the mix) or will he some how save Daenerys dragons, possiably from being captured by the dragon horn?

[TippsBlackandWhite]

As others have mentioned, I highly doubt he's dead. It would be a pretty bold move on GRRM's part and although I'd like to see how that would play out, it would just be too big of a waste.

I am sort of worried about the fate of the watch after this happens. If he's alive, he'll probably be out for a while, and how are Tormund and the rest of the wildings going to take this? Not only that but some of the watch will surely be split about this. Jon was really the paste that was holding them all together but now...

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

This was one of the things I had spoiled for me. randomly clicked on a link and it was like "Jon Snow dies". Jon's death was really forshadowed though. what with Mel seeing the Daggers in the Dark and then all the skull around him in her fires. I don't really buy it though. I think Jon is too important right now to completely kill off. it also makes sense from a AA standpoint, He would need to be reborn for that to happen.

I also don't buy Ramsay's letter at all. If he had really taken out Stannis, he might have written it just scare jon. But I wonder how he knows about Lightbringer and that Theon and Jeyne would be going to the Wall.

[A Redeemed Hound]

John is AA. From what Melisandre sees and even John has a dream of lifting a glowing sword.

Could John come back in the body of Stannis? Then Mel would have been right about everything.

[A Redeemed Hound]

As for the letter from Ramsey Bolton, who can say? Everything he said in the letter could have been learned from Mance Rayder. Everyone knows Stannis has a special sword. So maybe he just caught Mance and the six women and wrote the letter to provoke Jon Snow? Thinking that Theon and Jeyne are heading for the wall?

To me the storm was too bad for anyone to have been fighting for 7 days.

I guess we won't know for many years now. :thumbsdown:

[Turnshroud]

!) Glad to see I'm not the only one to think "et tu, Brute?" hehe

2) What the fuck George? Technically I spoiled it for myself because I, also, accidently clicked a link earlier on about Jon's death, but I made myself think it was Connington and soon forgot about it anyways to avoid thinking about it, which jalf-worked.

But I saw it coming, Ghost acting wild and walking about? We CLEARLY see stuff like that with Grey Wind right before the Red Wedding. I knew something bad was going to happen, but didn't know what.

3) I REALLY hope Jon doesn't come back as UnJon or something. I agree here, even if Jon doesn't possess the same qualities as Cat, he still will not be like on when he was alive.

My thinking is that Jon warged into Ghost as he called him, an that a few chapters in WoW will be narrated by "The Wol," "The Warg," or just as "Ghost."

4) I don't think Jon is AA but I doubt that GRRM is done with him.

[NeilSpoon]

There is no way Jon is dead. My money would be on Mel resurrecting him. Just hope it won't be in some sort of zombie form.

I personally think bolton's letter was written by someone from the nightwatch. Simply to tip Jon over the edge and make him break his vows. Just so they would have a bit more of a legitimate reason to kill him. (there was no pink seal on the letter, but just a smear of pink wax. This could be done by re-using a previous letter's seal).

[Lord Jon Connington]

Dammit! I registered on the board just to comment on this. How could Jon be so stupid? Lets announce in front of thousands of witnesses that I intend of deserting the Night Watch and march down south with a wildling army to declare war to Ramsay Bolton!

I hate to say it but he deserved what he got.

[NymeriaStark]

pg. 408 - "Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man" - This is how the flames are depicting Jon.

I thought it interesting no one mentioned that until now. In Mel 1 she's looking in to her fires and sees:

...The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. But the skulls were here as well, the skulls were all around him. Melisandre had seen this danger before, had tried to warn the boy of it. Enemies all around him, daggers in the dark.

Perhaps that's a tiny bit of proof for everyone who believes he warged in to Ghost at the end there. I don't necessarily believe that, but there you go. :)

[eyeheartsansa]

Perhaps that's a tiny bit of proof for everyone who believes he warged in to Ghost at the end there. I don't necessarily believe that, but there you go

That's kind of what I think the more I ponder it. It gives new meaning to the name 'Ghost' which makes for a really nice piece of foreshadowing on GRRM's part.