[ADWD SPOILERS] Daenerys 10

[lordthade]

Dany annoys me. Her chapters are more about other characters lately, and she gets more people needlessly killed than anyone else in the book.

That final chapter with her and Drogon was... dumb. I thought she didn't get sick. Self-poisoning is apparently a possibility.

[HaraktheHirsute]

I agree. She stopped being able to steer him with a whip or control him in any way, and so decides to go back to Mereen on foot. Then, some days later, a Dothraki scout appears, then disappears, and she suddenly thinks to call out to Drogon and he comes. Didn't quite get what the catalyst was for that.

[lordthade]

I know Dany is a main character and all, but to this point in the whole series her character is about as integral as Master Illyrio and HE only needed, what?, two chapters from someone else's perspective. Nothing she has done is all that important to Westeros yet, and by the time it IS important the plot lines like Highgaarden, Victarion, The Vale, Riverrun... all losers because there's no space in the book. GRRM could have simply made her the way he's made Selmy as an "outsider" of the main plot that now takes a center stage and could have developed those other lines so much more. You know, as much as I hate them, I'd love some Frey chapters. Or maybe a Rickon chapter just because?

Back on topic... as for Dany's last chapter there was something very confusing about she left the cave because she was starving or lonely or both, but then ends up riding Drogon anyway when she could have simply taken Drogon right on back to Mereen at any time. There's a disconnect here. About the best information I got out of that chapter was that Drogon's wings (which had been tattered as he escaped the city) are fine and he's flying with no problems. Dany just follows a stream, gets sick, and then rides Drogon right back into the grass. /headscratch

[HaraktheHirsute]

To be fair, if Dany had just flown back, there wouldn't have been the mystery and tension of whether she was alive or dead. Unfortunately, the Dany side of the equation doesn't quite seem to work. She tames Drogon in the fighting pit..except not really. The whip works...until it doesn't. So, she's apparently lost of control over Drogon...except she hasn't. Instead she can suddenly just call him and he comes. And she doesn't need the whip anymore, she can know use her knees. Yes, a head-scratcher indeed. Maybe this will all make sense later.

But in the meantime I would suggest things might have made more sense if Dany were actually taming Drogon in this interim or strengthening her bond with him rather than have her suddenly mount him when it was expedient to the story. A disappointing way to get Dany from point A to point B, but I'm glad she got there.

[Tyrionthebest]

I know Dany is a main character and all, but to this point in the whole series her character is about as integral as Master Illyrio and HE only needed, what?, two chapters from someone else's perspective. Nothing she has done is all that important to Westeros yet, and by the time it IS important the plot lines like Highgaarden, Victarion, The Vale, Riverrun... all losers because there's no space in the book. GRRM could have simply made her the way he's made Selmy as an "outsider" of the main plot that now takes a center stage and could have developed those other lines so much more. You know, as much as I hate them, I'd love some Frey chapters. Or maybe a Rickon chapter just because?

Back on topic... as for Dany's last chapter there was something very confusing about she left the cave because she was starving or lonely or both, but then ends up riding Drogon anyway when she could have simply taken Drogon right on back to Mereen at any time. There's a disconnect here. About the best information I got out of that chapter was that Drogon's wings (which had been tattered as he escaped the city) are fine and he's flying with no problems. Dany just follows a stream, gets sick, and then rides Drogon right back into the grass. /headscratch

I agree . I don't even care about whether she dies or lives anymore . I just don't want for her to become a queen .

[Moester]

What an incredibly BORING chapter. You would think that this being the last chapter of the book (the epilogue doesn't count for me) GRRM would've made an effort to make things more interesting. Instead we see the Essos version of Brienne trawling through the Crownlands in AFFC.

If only the last three chapters were rearranged - either Ser Barristan's or Jon's chapter (both more interesting than this borefest chapter) was swapped instead of Dany's then maybe it would have been better. With the way the book has ended (again, the epilogue doesn't count for me!) it has been a massive disappointment.

And Khal Jhaqo appearing... I don't even remember who the f*ck this dude is until I searched for his name in the PDF version of ADWD. Once again he's only a minor character but who's bound to stir up more trouble in the future. There are a lot of things happening in Meereen already, why the need to include him GRRM?!?!!!!

[kephv]

What an incredibly BORING chapter. You would think that this being the last chapter of the book (the epilogue doesn't count for me) GRRM would've made an effort to make things more interesting. Instead we see the Essos version of Brienne trawling through the Crownlands in AFFC.

If only the last three chapters were rearranged - either Ser Barristan's or Jon's chapter (both more interesting than this borefest chapter) was swapped instead of Dany's then maybe it would have been better. With the way the book has ended (again, the epilogue doesn't count for me!) it has been a massive disappointment.

And Khal Jhaqo appearing... I don't even remember who the f*ck this dude is until I searched for his name in the PDF version of ADWD. Once again he's only a minor character but who's bound to stir up more trouble in the future. There are a lot of things happening in Meereen already, why the need to include him GRRM?!?!!!!

I thought it was her second best chapter myself and one of the better chapters in the book. It was one of the rare times where we really got to see her reflect, and I think it gave a good indication of what she'll be up to next. As for Khal Jhaqo, it's hard to say what she'll being doing with him next. I personally think she'll end up taking her revenge on Mago, and reuniting the remaining Khalasars, and then marching back on Mereen to destroy the slavers.

[HaraktheHirsute]

Yeah, Khal Jhaqo is there because he leads the khalasars, which, presumably, will play a part in the Mereen/Yunkai war. It seems likely she will wrest control of the khalasars from Jhaqo (as MFO suggested).

[Tyrionthebest]

I thought it was her second best chapter myself and one of the better chapters in the book. It was one of the rare times where we really got to see her reflect, and I think it gave a good indication of what she'll be up to next. As for Khal Jhaqo, it's hard to say what she'll being doing with him next. I personally think she'll end up taking her revenge on Mago, and reuniting the remaining Khalasars, and then marching back on Mereen to destroy the slavers.

One of the best chapters in the book ? I think you are reading another book .

[HaraktheHirsute]

Don't want to knock anyone's taste, but I'm curious about the "rare times where we really got to see her reflect" comment. Most POV chapters contain a lot of reflection. Also, personally, I'd prefer less reflection and more action.

[kephv]

One of the best chapters in the book ? I think you are reading another book .

Not at all. As I said, it gave us a really good look into Dany's state of mind (I loved the whole inner dialogue with dream Viserys and her general ) and set up nicely where she'll be headed next. It played a very important part in setting up how Dany will view things from here on out, I think. It all depends on how much you value insights into Dany's character, but I really like building moments like that. Also there was some really good bits about dragons (flying, controlling Drogon and dragons in general, etc) that we didn't get before.

Don't want to knock anyone's taste, but I'm curious about the "rare times where we really got to see her reflect" comment. Most POV chapters contain a lot of reflection.

Not like her last chapter though. Since she was by herself (characters rarely spend chapters by themselves), it's only natural that the chapter was mostly internal dialogue. We got to see how she felt about Mereen after all was said and done, and, in the end, she came to realize that by staying in Mereen she was straying from her purpose. She finds her self again, and ultimately I think this will be a major driving force behind her actions to come.

[HaraktheHirsute]

Not like her last chapter though. Since she was by herself (characters rarely spend chapters by themselves), it's only natural that the chapter was mostly internal dialogue. We got to see how she felt about Mereen after all was said and done, and, in the end, she came to realize that by staying in Mereen she was straying from her purpose. She finds her self again, and ultimately I think this will be a major driving force behind her actions to come.

Fair enough, though I still have to wonder why it took her this long.

[Umel of Ys]

"To go forward I must go back" so I guess to make Daenerys' arc interesting Martin had to make it super boring? Seriously though I've always found something interesting in most Daenerys chapters (even if her arc didn't amount to much) but I wish Martin had made her last chapter more epic. For a fleeting second, wandering useless in the wilderness in the vicinity of (mountain?) lions, eating poisonous berries, Daenerys reminded me of Kim Bauer. Some of the flashbacks also had a "clip show" vibe to them which is unfortunate... I do agree that she'll probably go back to Mereen with a huge Dothraki army but I wish the novel had ended one (hopefully) Daenerys chapter later, on that epic image.

[koftroy]

Well a little vindication at least.

That yes, she's a total moron, yes she mistreated the dragons, yes she should have listened to Jorah.

It might have been tedious as all hell to get there, and with that ending, it might not be over yet, but at least she got told.

Honestly, I am about 3/4 through the book, and I do not think she will ever sit on the Iron Throne; EVER. At this point I have no idea what to think about Aegon....Dany just does not fit into the world of Westeros which will be fighting against the Other's. Seriously, she is a Khaleesi w/Dragons (I know they are key to the story and are the glitch in my theory above), but she is in love with a man who has a purple moustache, a gold tooth, and weapons with naked women as their hilts? Really? I would like her fate to be better written, and for it to remain in the east. On a side note: Arya, Arya, Arya!!!!

She is too embroiled in the East, and too young...the dumbest thing she did was not forgive Jorah, as Selmy is good, but Jorah knew his stuff. I still think Jon is going to be the new King in the end; but as always the price will be high; as it will be for everyone.

[The Bread Viper]

Still after all that has happened, finally realising how wrong she has been about so many things, she still moons over bloody Daario which is without the most tedious of all the boring bits of her arc. Barriston has it totally right about her she is still a little girl.

However things are finally taking shape. Barriston has the city, Tyrion outside with the sell swords, Victarion about to smash the fleet (not to mention in possession of a very useful dragon horn) and a khalasar ready to bend over to the dragon we may finally see slaver's bay smashed and her start to move towards the west. We live in hope at least.

[Jelliefishie]

Back on topic... as for Dany's last chapter there was something very confusing about she left the cave because she was starving or lonely or both, but then ends up riding Drogon anyway when she could have simply taken Drogon right on back to Mereen at any time. There's a disconnect here. About the best information I got out of that chapter was that Drogon's wings (which had been tattered as he escaped the city) are fine and he's flying with no problems. Dany just follows a stream, gets sick, and then rides Drogon right back into the grass. /headscratch

My interpretation of this:

She couldn't have taken Drogon back to Meereen, she already tried doing that. The problem was that although she was able to ride Drogon out of the city, she was not able to steer him. As she said in the beginning of the chapter, it was like learning to ride all over again. Drogon kept reacting the opposite from what she wanted him to do, turning right when she wanted him to go left, and no matter what he would always fly her back to his "Dragonstone" lair.

The reason Dany sets out on her own, on foot, is because she finally got too frustrated with Drogon's uncooperative nature. And I'm glad she did, because it finally beat some sense in to her and made Dany realize the error of her ways :) As much as other readers may feel unfulfilled by this chapter, I feel fulfilled in hearing Dany admit - outloud! - that she was wrong. It takes a lot for someone to do that, to even admit it to themselves. To admit it to others may be a lie, but to admit it to yourself is really something.

Especially, I LOVED that she finally remembered who she is!! With the wide open scenery of the Dothraki Sea, and the constant repitition of "Remember" over and over, it really reminded me of Mufasa from the Lion King...hahaha! "Remember who you are, Simba!" Anyway, during her hallucinations and dreaming, she was told/realized that she had forgotten who she was....and the book explicitly mentions that the dragons know she forgot. Even though Valyrian dragon riders used spells and magic horns like Victarion's horn to bind dragons to their riders, we know that Dany is special. As special as Aegon the Conqueror was; out of all the dragonriders his legends suggest that he was the most accomplished in dragonriding, taming even the Black Dread. So it is feasible that Dany is as special as he, perhaps she doesn't need the horn to tame Drogon per se.

So, since Dany finally remembered who she was...Mother of Dragons...knew that not in just the words and title, but truly felt the spirit of those words...Drogon returned to her in the end, willingly. Dragons can smell fear on a person, they can smell much more. Dany the Clueless Little Girl did not know how to handle dragons. Daenerys Targaren, Mother of Dragons, does. Drogon was too difficult to control and ride when she was still confused about herself and her role in life. Now that she's remembered herself, Drogon returns and she should get back on track with returning to Westeros.

Also, I know other people have rang in about this already but I don't understand the extreme disgust people have with the descriptions of Dany having the shits and her period. Maybe this is TMI, but I think we're past that point already. For women who get pretty bad cramps, GRRM wrote it true -- cramps can definitely cause you to have bowel movements, and diarrhea during your period is not uncommon at all. Not to say every woman gets this because everyone is different, but it's not a weird thing to happen...it's part of our biology as humans...or femalekind, whatever. :) It's not even weird sex (fetish?) of period sex like someone in an early post mentioned, it's just a natural, physiological reaction. All those organs in our abdomen are mashed close together, when one cramps up it affects other organs nearby...in this case the large intestine...

At any rate, Dany had become too lofty in Meereen...with her nibbling on fancy foods and her opulent tokars fringed with freshwater pearls. She even thought she was ABOVE disease!!! This chapter showed her! She's been humbled greatly, and I'm glad for it, so now she can get back on track.

[Blue Rose Direwolf]

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," -- This part could be fulfilled with Quentyn's death.

Quentyn is the Sun's sun, and can be considered as the Sun.

Sun rises in the west (Quentyn born from the west)

Sun sets in the east (Quentyn dies in the east)

"When the seas go dry" -- The grass is dry in that Dothraki (sp) sea. Acceptable?

"and mountains blow in the wind like leaves." -- Drogon's dragonstone lair where he torches the area and ashes flies in the wind. Acceptable?

I am also thinking if there are any active volcano that might erupt soon, Volantis perhaps?

"When your womb quickens again" -- Her moon's blood, irregular or spontaneous miscarriage. But that could mean she's fertile again.

"and you bear a living child." -- A new Khal found her there.

"Then he will return, and not before." -- so her son will be Khal Drogo Reborn?

Too much "Reborn" ______.

Could it be Azor Asshat Reborn = Dany + Khal Jhogo = Khal Drogo Reborn?

Sanctume, this is was what I was thinking too! Quentyn kept saying insisting that he was Dorne and the emblem of Dorne is the sun and spear so really he is the sun that rose in the west and set in the east. Then there's the Dothraki sea drying up and Dragonstone ash flying everywhere like leaves in the wind.

I'm also quite sure that she had a miscarriage which means that she's not barren and might be capable of bearing a living child. I can't wait for Dany and Jon to hook up! I'm also glad she miscarried (hopefully) Daario's baby. It would be horrific for the Mother of Dragons to bear the child of a common as muck sellsword like him. Like Swordswench, I'm also hoping that Daario is dead. Dany needs to be rid of him and his bad influence once and for all.

I don't know how or in what form Khal Drogo would return though. It might be as her child or it could also be some type of sorcery. We've seen other people return from the dead (in fact lots) but none have returned without a body. Khal Drogo's body was burned on his funeral pyre so I've no idea how he would come back to her even though I really really want him too! We could really do with some Drogo action right now.

I agree with AndyFatBastard that she won't get with Khal Jhaqo. As far as I remember they hated each other before, when he was part of Drogo's Khalasar, so it's more likely she'll either conquer him or just kill him with Drogon's help. Afterall, most of his army were people from Drogo's Khalasar so it's makes sense that they would return to her if they see she's stronger than Jhaqo.

I'm so gutted that Tyrion didn't get to meet Dany though! I was really looking forward to that.

By the way, this is my first post on this forum. I've been lurking for the last several weeks as I read my way though the series and I was happy to see that so many of my own theories were the same as many of the theories here. It's great to be able to discuss this with someone, no one around me is reading the books and keeping it all bottled up in my head is driving me crazy!

[Blue Rose Direwolf]

And I refuse to believe that Jon is dead. No way. He's going to hook up with Dany and they're going to have lovely little Targaryen children.

So what if it's unlikely? I want to believe it!!!

[drteeth72]

I think that after the Jon chapter it was bad placement for any chapters to follow, especially this one.I hope that the master plan is going to pay off because the last time I was entertained by a Dany chapter was when she got the unsullied.

[Ser Leo Targaryen]

Just echoing the crowd: BORING!

I was really hoping that by the end of this book Dany would make use of Victarion's growing fleet to go West... but NO! Of course not!

She didn't meet Tyrion, she didn't meet Victarion, Quentyn died!

I wonder what's to come... Apparently she'll become the queen of the world, or something, unifying the Free Cities, and not only Westeros! That's what I felt when the lady in Volantis was asking Jorah to tell Dany that Volantis is waiting...

But for that to happen... well, 2 books is definately not enough!

And please: I just want her to go to Westeros! Is that asking too much? I don't even care if she'll get to sit in the Iron Throne or not! But I want some interconnected action! PLEASE!

At least the whole blood stuff was interesting. If she's able to have children again, it will solve the problem of her reign being pointless, since she couldn't have descendants...