Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Xray the Enforcer

[ADWD SPOILERS] Daenerys 10

Recommended Posts

I've been wondering. Supposedly in AGoT Daenerys's fire resistant abilities were a one time deal, or so I've read in other threads (supposedly GRRM stated such but I can't find anything on it). Yet, it says here, and in Barristan's chapter, that she was she on fire again (all her hair was burnt off again) yet she's alive with only minor burns on her hands... So apparently she does have some fire proof abilities now?

Or did she all along?

I thought this was one of the better Dany chapters!

Same. Probably my favorite Dany chapter in the book along side her dragontaming one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, still not a great Dany chapter, not as exciting as the last one, but better than the 8 previous to that. It's a very interesting place she is in now, maybe her chapter will finally cease treading so much water.

So basically in this final chapter GRRM is saying to the readers, yes, I know, Dany should never have stayed in Meereen, she knows it now, I just had you guys read about it for the entire book.

Never in my wildest theories had I thought this 5th book would have so little plot progression for Dany.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I gotta say, this chapter redeemed Dany a bit to me after slogging through all those pages of "Hizdoo said this" and "Da'znario did that", not to mention "Dany looked forlornly over the city from her balcony."

It's a little annoying that it took the entire book for her to come around, but I think Dany's arc in TWoW is going to be a lot better, especially with her father's traits starting to creep in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I liked this chapter. Almost as good as the last Dany chapter. I can:t believe how much people are whining about her story arc considering Jon and Tyrion:s.

[snip]

Also whoever was like ewww i dont want to see dany have diarrhea shes supposed to be hot - wow can you be more sexist?  Everyone shits. Women are no different from men in this regard. If we have to hear about Tyrion pissing every chapter and then shaking it off we can hear Dany being sick the one time she is.

I was touched by her memories of Viserys and (especially) Jorah. I don:t see them as proof she is crazy at all. She is dehydrated, sick, and nearly dying of thirst. Its not surprising she would hallucinate a bit. Also, I have never been more certain that she will accept Jorah back which makes me very happy! And now he:s a ridiculous badass with his demon mark on his face and his back covered with a hundred scars from the whip. Fuckin a, man. I am sad they never met this book... Tyrions last chapter in particular - wat.

...I have to say I do now agree with many people who were saying that Dany is a better conqueror than she is a peacetime ruler.

Beat me to it, on all counts. :)

I like introspective chapters where a character is forced to re-examine their priorities and reflect on their choices. Totally agreed on the physical stresses - dehydration, starvation, discomfort, pain, possible miscarriage/illness - and mental stresses - guilt, failure, abandonment, confusion - leading to her inner dialogues embodied as voices from her past. She feels guilty about both Viserys and Jorah, perhaps because in both cases she was trying to act as she thought a queen should act, but her inner human being feeling revulsion at those choices?

Definitely seconded on the privileged sexist remark. Go read porn if you want to be titillated; these books are powerful because the characters go through heavy stuff and grow and change, males and females. Sure, some are attractive, but it seems that everyone ends up scarred, mentally and/or physically, by their ordeals. I give kudos to GRRM for not pulling punches for fear of upsetting the menfolk who like their women to shit rainbows.

It seems that most of the players in the game of thrones are better conquerors than rulers...

(Whoa. Fridge Inspiration)

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," -- This part could be fulfilled with Quentyn's death.

..."When the seas go dry" -- The grass is dry in that Dothraki (sp) sea. Acceptable?

"and mountains blow in the wind like leaves." -- Drogon's dragonstone lair where he torches the area and ashes flies in the wind. Acceptable?

..."When your womb quickens again" -- Her moon's blood, irregular or spontaneous miscarriage. But that could mean she's fertile again.

"Then he will return, and not before." -- so her son will be Khal Drogo Reborn?

What if Drogon (the namesake/embodiment of Drogo) returning to Dany and obeying her was the prophesied "he will return"? What if from this point onward, Drogon accepts Dany as his Mother/Master/Rider?

("bear a living child" - what if this is an existential question? When she accepts that she is a Mother to Dragons, she now has born a living child, because the living dragons are now truly her children as she accepts her responsibility for them? Alternately, Meereen.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beat me to it, on all counts. :)

I like introspective chapters where a character is forced to re-examine their priorities and reflect on their choices. Totally agreed on the physical stresses - dehydration, starvation, discomfort, pain, possible miscarriage/illness - and mental stresses - guilt, failure, abandonment, confusion - leading to her inner dialogues embodied as voices from her past. She feels guilty about both Viserys and Jorah, perhaps because in both cases she was trying to act as she thought a queen should act, but her inner human being feeling revulsion at those choices?

I just wish that there had been 1 more Dany chapter - a "triumphant return" chapter - rather than this "okay we will probably soon have a triumphant return". Actually I felt this way about every PoV. There were no endings, whatsoever (every book pre affc had closure in most PoVs - this book had closure in none).

What if Drogon (the namesake/embodiment of Drogo) returning to Dany and obeying her was the prophesied "he will return"? What if from this point onward, Drogon accepts Dany as his Mother/Master/Rider?

I like it!

("bear a living child" - what if this is an existential question? When she accepts that she is a Mother to Dragons, she now has born a living child, because the living dragons are now truly her children as she accepts her responsibility for them? Alternately, Meereen.)

I certainly hope it means that Dany can in fact bear a living child again... as long as it's not Daario's or Hizdar's. :ack: The issue is that if she really has completed all the requirements of MMD's prophecy, her womb should quicken again. And, well, she's only had sex with Daario and Hizdar in recent memory...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I liked this arc more than most of you. I'm glad Dany finally realized her choices were wrong and she should have gone to Westeros. I still don't want to see her set foot on Westeros. She's proven to be too incompetent a leader. She may have finally learned her actions in Meereen were wrong, but I do not trust her to be a good Queen in Westeros. I hope that she is killed off. It should have been Dany rather than Jon.

I totally agree... Danny's story arc is boring... I wish GRRM just gave us another Jon chapter than this last DAnny chapter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont have the book with me now, but I recall Danny seeing Qiathes mask sort of stars? There are theories here about Qiathe = Ashara. Ashara is from Starfall .. am I right? >.> Correct me if I'm wrong, but has anyone noticed that too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GRRM fucked up Dany's character in this book. She's always been batshit crazy, but was ultimately likeable. Dany in this book was not even likeable.

why? I think was real whiny the poo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I rather enjoyed Dany's last chapter. It is an introspective look at the mistakes she made, simply because she's still a girl yearing not a quiet life ("planting trees"). Her mind's Jorah reminds her that that is not the life for her.

(Ah, she must meet up with Jorah in the next book...)

I think the end showed some promise, the mental image of a half-naked, bloodied Dany standing next to Drogon...Badass.

The khalasar should be getting off their horses and bowing down...now.

(I am firmly in the "that was a miscarriage, perhaps she can have babies after all" camp.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

speaking of mental images, I would love if HBO make the part where our adorable whiny the poo go batshit crazy, with special effect, sounds and all, that surely would be an all time favorite episode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Khal Jhogo is dead. Dany swore to kill all of Drogo's bloodriders who abandoned him.

Dany will take the khalasaar and storm Mereen as Selmy and Co. do battle with the Yunkish. Or perhaps she will unite all of the tribes that were created when Drogo died?

That's what I think anyway. She will have her army. Mereen will have won and king Hizdar can be left to rule while she takes her dragons (who are hated over in Mereen) and her armies back to Westeros.

Dany's chapters were butt boring but it had to be that way. This was the knot that GRRM spoke about, people. He had to have her do nothing for most of the book in order to get all of the players into place.

I knew this book would be another AFFC so I was not let down at all. I think it was far better than AFFC actually.

It was one big setup for The Winds of Winter. I am expecting BIG things in the next book. But, yes, Dany lost some of my love in this book too but I understand why. The knot is undone now. Let the chaos begin!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jesus Christ!

I really don't get this Mereenese knot business.......

Like I said in an earlier thread, Tyrion and Jorah could have easily met up with Dany half way through the book. (just travel a bit faster, let more time pass between Dany chapters). The interaction we would have had between Dany, barristan, Tyrion and Jorah would have been very interesting.

But the way GRRM has done it resulted in a very boring Dany and a very boring Tyrion storyline.

I can't believe that after a 1000 pages she has only met up with quentyn and that was pretty pointless in any case....

And I can't believe there has been no action whatsoever at any stage. Every POV ended in a cliffhanger. It's been completely frustrating and ppl who waited 11 years since ASOS must be pretty pissed off :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," -- This part could be fulfilled with Quentyn's death.

Quentyn is the Sun's sun, and can be considered as the Sun.

Sun rises in the west (Quentyn born from the west)

Sun sets in the east (Quentyn dies in the east)

"When the seas go dry" -- The grass is dry in that Dothraki (sp) sea. Acceptable?

"and mountains blow in the wind like leaves." -- Drogon's dragonstone lair where he torches the area and ashes flies in the wind. Acceptable?

I am also thinking if there are any active volcano that might erupt soon, Volantis perhaps?

"When your womb quickens again" -- Her moon's blood, irregular or spontaneous miscarriage. But that could mean she's fertile again.

"and you bear a living child." -- A new Khal found her there.

"Then he will return, and not before." -- so her son will be Khal Drogo Reborn?

Too much "Reborn" ______.

Could it be Azor Asshat Reborn = Dany + Khal Jhogo = Khal Drogo Reborn?

That's an excellent interpretation. I vote yes--Dany can have kids again :) and if "Young Griff" really is who he says he is, perhaps they'll eventually get together and prolong the Targaryen line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jesus Christ!

I really don't get this Mereenese knot business.......

Like I said in an earlier thread, Tyrion and Jorah could have easily met up with Dany half way through the book. (just travel a bit faster, let more time pass between Dany chapters). The interaction we would have had between Dany, barristan, Tyrion and Jorah would have been very interesting.

But the way GRRM has done it resulted in a very boring Dany and a very boring Tyrion storyline.

I can't believe that after a 1000 pages she has only met up with quentyn and that was pretty pointless in any case....

And I can't believe there has been no action whatsoever at any stage. Every POV ended in a cliffhanger. It's been completely frustrating and ppl who waited 11 years since ASOS must be pretty pissed off :/

I agree with all of this.

I dont understand what GRRM was going on about with his mereenese knot, he didnt really even start tying one, let alone unravel it in this book! So disappoint.

Well, at least the HBO series is still good! With any luck theyll get 8 seasons and fix GRRMs problems. The writing in the show is usually better when its new stuff rather than adapted dialogue anyway. :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I enjoyed this chapter... thought the ending was interesting too. Bit of introspection was a good thing. Though I wish some things would be more resolved before the book finishes, argh ye gods.

While I haven't enjoyed Dany's 'arc' as much as some of the other characters', I don't think it's due to it being set in Slaver's Bay at all... I liked reading about that part of the world as much as Braavos or Pentos or Volantis or even Westeros. And all the myriad of characters... thought they were great... by about 100-200 pages in you were down with whom everyone was ;)

It's Dany I didn't really enjoy reading about - the action in Meereen was a lot improved when she left IMO. I'll see Slaver's Bay through Ser Barristan the Bold's eyes any day.

I don't see how Dany could ever be a good ruler. I can think of a lot of other people who are better suited to the job.

And am I the only one - but I don't want her to go storming back into Westeros with those dragons, breathing flames and burning people to a crisp, left right and centre. Poor common folk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see how Dany could ever be a good ruler. I can think of a lot of other people who are better suited to the job.

And am I the only one - but I don't want her to go storming back into Westeros with those dragons, breathing flames and burning people to a crisp, left right and centre. Poor common folk.

You have a very poor understanding of Daenerys' character if you believe she would invade Westeros with the goal of "burning the common folk left and right" - in fact, she's the only ruler in the series who actively sacrifices for the common folk on a regular basis (in Essos, common folks means slaves). And she gets a lot of heat from it from her critics here who seem to think that slavery isn't worth stopping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have a very poor understanding of Daenerys' character if you believe she would invade Westeros with the goal of "burning the common folk left and right" - in fact, she's the only ruler in the series who actively sacrifices for the common folk on a regular basis (in Essos, common folks means slaves). And she gets a lot of heat from it from her critics here who seem to think that slavery isn't worth stopping.

I know that Dany doesn't have that specific goal. It's just that flying into Westeros with three dragons that she can't really control could very likely eventuate in that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been wondering. Supposedly in AGoT Daenerys's fire resistant abilities were a one time deal, or so I've read in other threads (supposedly GRRM stated such but I can't find anything on it). Yet, it says here, and in Barristan's chapter, that she was she on fire again (all her hair was burnt off again) yet she's alive with only minor burns on her hands... So apparently she does have some fire proof abilities now?

Or did she all along?

Same. Probably my favorite Dany chapter in the book along side her dragontaming one.

I think that it was a one time thing in GoT, but has since evolved into something more. Perhaps that is why the HBO version has her as fire proof. Or maybe her hair burning was a Michael Jackson sort of thing.

I also don't get why people are so down on Dany in this chapter. Maybe it is a sexist thing, who knows? But in this chapter, we actually get to see Dany come face to face with reality and stop vacillating between a ruler and a little girl. All while having to deal with the effects of dysentery.

And what is with all the hate for Dario? I think he is one of my favorite characters. The swashbuckling sell sword that enjoys life to its fullest. How many people of his sort get to bed a queen, much less the queen of dragons who also happens to be one of the most beautiful in the world, or so we are told. Is it the whole gold tooth thing? Come on folks. Let's not be racists as well as sexist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not like this final chapter but I really like the whole Mereen arc The Shavepate is a great character and Strong Belwas coming back after eating a whole bag of poisoned locust has to be one of the most badass things in the whole series.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was really nice to see her realize that she lost herself and made mistakes in Meereen. It was also nice for her to miss Jorah and admit he was right.

When she talked about Drogon's wound smoking, it reminded me of Jon's wound smoking.

Ever since she did the deal with the dragons, she's been saying the same thing. "If she looks back, she is lost." It was interesting to see that in truth in order for her to go forward she must go back.

She must remember who she is, who she is born to be. Another parallel with Jon I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×