{ADWD Spoilers} The Freys

[Guest Latea Stark]

How are Bran and his companions going to go back south? There must be thousands of wights and others between them and the Wall.

They managed to get to the caves, it was difficult but they did it.

Bran's growing warging abilities, and Summer's new pack, will probably help.

I don't want any of Bran, Summer, Meera, Jojen or Hodor to have to live out their lives north of the Wall, though I doubt all of them will make it back. :frown5:

[LordBloodraven]

Taking the cold-blooded view, Roslin "needs" to be eliminated because she's pregnant with the heir to Riverrun. The Jaime POV's in AFFC make it clear that if she has a son, Edmure's life is forfeit and the Freys will have and control the heir to Riverrun, even if Emmon Frey can't hold on to its. That's obviously an advantage to the Freys, and means the virtual destruction of the Tully family (unless the Blackfish gets off his ass and gets married. Hey, buddy, take one for the team.) To thoroughly purge the Freys from any position of power Roslin and her child need to go, and Edmure should marry someone else. Actually, Lord Manderly has a couple of attractive granddaughters who would be perfect for Edmure, although he'd still be stuck with a badass bunch of in-laws.

Yeah, I know Edmure likes the bitch, but she's still complicit in the Red Wedding, so I say "off with her head!"

I don't know why, but I see Edmure marrying Wylla Manderly or her sister Wynafryd at the end. I would like the Blackfish to marry too and to be the new Lord of the Crossing

[voodooqueen126]

I'll be doing that alongside you. I've been saying for a while that I thought Rickon Stark would marry one of Manderly's daughter and now I think I've identified the one.

Aside from the 'Wylla screwing Rickon's older brother I can see this happening...

skip to about 5.00

http://www.youtube.c...nel_video_title

In real life their marriage was consumated in front of atleast two people: her father I think and possibly a cardinal or a bishop.Awkward

[Jeejee]

Taking the cold-blooded view, Roslin "needs" to be eliminated because she's pregnant with the heir to Riverrun. The Jaime POV's in AFFC make it clear that if she has a son, Edmure's life is forfeit and the Freys will have and control the heir to Riverrun, even if Emmon Frey can't hold on to its. That's obviously an advantage to the Freys, and means the virtual destruction of the Tully family (unless the Blackfish gets off his ass and gets married. Hey, buddy, take one for the team.) To thoroughly purge the Freys from any position of power Roslin and her child need to go, and Edmure should marry someone else. Actually, Lord Manderly has a couple of attractive granddaughters who would be perfect for Edmure, although he'd still be stuck with a badass bunch of in-laws.

Yeah, I know Edmure likes the bitch, but she's still complicit in the Red Wedding, so I say "off with her head!"

I think you're all missing the point, which is that it's disturbing when readers are so eager to see the deaths of innocent characters. We know of several Freys that were not involved in the Red Wedding - a few, in fact, that wanted to continue supporting Robb - and there seem to be dozens of small children. Exterminating all of the Freys is a ridiculous knee jerk reaction to Robb's betrayal and comes across as, yes, juvenile. It's not like everyone who bears the name is somehow tainted - children can be very different from their parents, as evidenced by Sam, Dany, Tommen & Myrcella, Domeric, etc.

In any case I don't think we need to worry about Edmure. He's held by the Lannisters, not the Freys, and Jaime (who likes to flirt with the idea of being honorable) promised that he would live out his days as a well-treated prisoner.

[Alexia]

In any case I don't think we need to worry about Edmure. He's held by the Lannisters, not the Freys, and Jaime (who likes to flirt with the idea of being honorable) promised that he would live out his days as a well-treated prisoner.

Ha! No, Jaime promised he would be treated according to his station. Apparently there's quite a difference between that and being well-treated, as Jaime hastened to let us know when Edmure got confused on the matter.

[Vympel]

The most 'just' (in the context of ASoIaF) punishment I can think of for the Freys is there being reduced in station and losing the Twins.

Walder will die, of course. As will, hopefully, all those directly involved. Robb's loyal Freys will hopefully be spared.

[Light a wight tonight]

As an important source of nutrients during Winter the Freys must be preserved. Even if this means salting or smoking. The whole clan sounds like bunch of hangers-on, each one trying to squirm up the ladder of succession and curry favor with Walder, checking out everyone else's positions in line (conversation between Big and Little at Winterfell), no other ambitions in life.

I thought Tywin thought up the Red Wedding. Winning battles with ravens, not arms, or words to that effect. Walder the Eldest seems not to be clear enough mentally, though that mey not be true. Spends all his time on young wives and maundering about the respect he deserves but never gets.

[lordthade]

Tywin used the Frey/Stark rift to his advantage and had Bolton to make it work.

Tywin was the most manipulative of the characters. The moontea episode with Robb's wife and her mother illustrate perfectly how Tywin operates. It also speaks volumes to the possibilities wrapped up in the diminutive Tyrion. Tyrion may not be wholly "evil" like his father was, but you get the sense he's definitely capable if he put his mind to it.

[jarl the climber]

As an important source of nutrients during Winter the Freys must be preserved. Even if this means salting or smoking. The whole clan sounds like bunch of hangers-on, each one trying to squirm up the ladder of succession and curry favor with Walder, checking out everyone else's positions in line (conversation between Big and Little at Winterfell), no other ambitions in life.

I thought Tywin thought up the Red Wedding. Winning battles with ravens, not arms, or words to that effect. Walder the Eldest seems not to be clear enough mentally, though that mey not be true. Spends all his time on young wives and maundering about the respect he deserves but never gets.

We should call this thread "How To Serve The Freys", my recipe would be Ami Frey pie, guaranteed to satisfy at least 3 stableboys.

[davidjones2492]

The Rains of Castamere are the reason that the Westerlands are so incredibly loyal to Tywin Lannister after all.

Can't help but think you're way off on this one. One of the themes in Dance of Dragons is the comparison between the legacies of Tywin and Ned.

Tywin may well have been feared by his banner men, but his reputation hardly inspired loyalty; his own son killed him for God's sake and his house is facing the abyss at present. If the Lannisters do dissapear do you think any of his bannermen will care?

Ned on the other hand is loved so much by his subjects they will go to war for his children, who they have never even seen several years after his death, best line ever: "Ned's Girl". It is the honour and popularity of the Starks that will eventually restore the house.

Anyhow the Frey death counter has ticked on one more place, for those of you who have read the first Winds of Winter chapter.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

I think that the constant playing of "The Rains of Castamere" is a message about the ultimate fate of the Lannisters, that is, the ruthlessness that the Lannisters were so proud of is going to turn around and bite them on their collective ass. A lot of Lannisters have already died, and I predict that Tywin's line will die out all together -- if GRRM can bring himself to kill off Tyrion.

The Frey's violation of the guest right was an affront to the gods, so they are subject to "divine justice," which in mythology and the Old Testament isn't fair or reasonable, just thorough. The pregnant women and children of Sodom and Gomorrah weren't spared. Zeus destroyed the entire town where Philemon and Baucis lived, after all their neighbors had denied hospitality to Zeus and Hermes. Paris violated the guest right when he eloped with his host's wife Helen, and the Greeks destroyed Troy out of duty to Zeus, the patron god of travelers.

I see UnCat, who was revived by the god R'hllor, as an instrument of divine justice. She's a Nemesis. So far she's just been killing Freys we don't particularly care about (their troops, keep in mind that the Freys slaughtered Robb's escort indiscriminately), but I can certainly see her killing some innocent or likeable Freys to demonstrate remorseless divine retribution. The lesson would be "do a bad thing, and the gods will do worse." I can also see a slaughter of the innocents because that's the kind of thing GRRM likes to write about. Fasten your seatbelt and prepare to be horrified.

ETA: IMO UnCat was created to do things that a live Stark would not do.

[Mumatil]

It should probably be noted that not all Freys carry the backstabbing gene. I seem to remember that Ser Perwyn was a good Frey.

The Boltons, on the other hand, have yet to convince me that they are humans.

I thought Cleos wasn't to bad either. But I expect innocent or not of the red wedding a lot of Freys are going to die, even Edmure's "bride".

[Unholly Septon]

OK,as far as I am concerned,Olivar,Sir Perwin and Roslin can live.The two were not there and Roslin was an innocent frightened girl.If she deserves to die,for not fighting all her relatives,then Ned is guilty for not killing Tywin when he saw the baby bodies...he couldn't do anything like she couldn't do anything,he could only shout,she could only cry.Also it seems that the Freys who are half Rosby are better than the rest of the clan...maybe it has to do something with that.They had a brother who participated in the Red Wedding as well but he died and payed his debts...now as for the rest :drool: ...well to begin with:The Boltons have all to die,they betrayed the Starks for years and years,Stannis can burn or give them to the Old Gods whatever is fine with me,BUT Theon must be there and before Ramsey dies,he must call him bastard or Snow or something that'll piss him off.I'd like to hear Roose screaming for one time in total pain.When we take Winterfell Fat Walda and her baby have to die.Frey and Bolton is just not a good combination at all.Walda is very fat,so she will provide much supplies for the upcoming winter,or we can take her on a ship and let her to Scagos(I mean the cannibal island).I am sure that UnCat will take care of the Freys in Riveran that's why Tom of the Seven is there.Lothar,Black Walder and everyone involved in the RW have to die ofcourse,we can give the children to the Iron men,The Wall,The army of religion etc because they must prove themselves as human beings or we can alternatively leave some of them to the Towers to be ruled by Olivar or Perwin and kill one child for each one of the Northen leaders in the RW and five for Little Jon and ten for Little Manderly.Then at last,when they are done,Walder the Eldest must be neutered,raped by giants and finally given to Nymeria and her wolves,but not BEFORE seeing his clan finished.Now if Danny ever takes the Iron Throne and propose some namby-pamby solution of forgiveness... :bang: NOOOOOO!!!NEVER!!!WE ARE GOING TO RESIST!!!NO MORE PEACEFUL SOLUTIONS!!!A GOOD FREY IS A DEAD FREY.Nuff said...

[the Scorpion Knight]

and what of big walder ?

[The Wolves]

All the Frays have got to die because A) that shit called the RW was so cruel and went against even the gods, the whole house must be extinguished. B) They fucked with the Starks and the North. C) they took it too far, treating Robb and Cats' bodies like that. I don't care if the are men, women, child, crippled, old person, etc... If they are Fray they gotta go and go out bad. Honestly who in Westeros would care if the Frays were exterminated they are accursed and hated. People should celebrate when they all die out, Lannisters and Boltons should get the same treatment also extinction!!!

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

I was also a fan of Ser Cleos,and think "Big" Walder seems nice enough...

But they've violated a sacred right in the sight of gods and men and now their house is accursed. Don't blame Cat for hanging an innocent Frey, blame Lord Walder for Violating guest right and cursing his family members wether good or bad.