{ADWD SPOILERS} What do we know now that we didn't pre-ADWD?

[TamTam Rapley]

GRRM was skipping major events as early as A Clash of Kings.

This had two pov characters there tho. And at the Whispering Wood, Cat at least got to see Robb and his men gallop off during the night and watch the fighting from afar.

He either doesn't like writing battle scenes very much or he's making a conscious point about the relative importance of politics and intrigue.

Or he's pandering to HBO now to keep the series low budget.

[evanesco75]

Yes, Manderley definitely baked Rhaegar Frey and the rest in those pork pies. His delight, his gorging and his request for a song about the Rat Cook are hints.

Why would GRRM be pandering to HBO now when he was already skipping scenes like the WW in the early 90s?

What else?

We know Melisandre doesn't need to eat (from her POV). We know she's got secrets (duh!) concerning her past: Melony, Lot number...

We know the Blackwoods and Brackens have been going at for a long time now :D

We know Egg married for love, and hence allowed his sons to do the same, with detrimental political results.

[IceSt0rm]

The cave with heads whispering secrets and knowledge sounds an awful lot like e rows of skin masks containing the memories of the dead they once belonged to.

This just gave me a thought could it be because of the nature of the "faces" that being a skinchanger (in the faceless man sense) requires that one has warging abilities?

[brook]

Or he's pandering to HBO now to keep the series low budget.

Or Ramsey is lying and the battle is yet to occur

Or it is one of the chapters that got bumped back to the next book.

[Eaglewood]

I seriously don't get the whole "Brandon was a doucebag rapist" theory. At all. There is next to zero evidence for it. We know he liked to bang Lady Ryswell, who is not exactly the best judge of character and who most defiantly approved of it. We know he was considered wild and hot tempered. We know he humored Cat by defending her honor, beating the snot out of Littlefinger, and letting him live with a scar when she asked him to. We know he died by being chocked to death, trying to reach his baking father. We know Ned loved him (although Ned seemed to not think ill of ANYBODY. He was a pretty amiable fellow) and buried him in the crypt next to Lyanna and his father.

That's it. To me that's a huge leap to assume 1. He would rape anyone 2. He would rape/hishonor a girl he got his very shy brother to dance with in the first place. Not seeing it.

[Sherrit]

Didn't Lady Ryswell comment Brandon telling her he had to marry Catelyn? I took it that he felt for her. I think I'll go back and check...

[Sherrit]

She said, "He never wanted her, I can promise you that. He told me so, on our last night together."

Maybe I'm just assuming he had some feelings. He took her more than once, and told her he didn't want to marry Cat.

[Eddard Stark]

WRT Lady Dustin - it's really hard to imagine anyone who willingly would ally with the Bolton's as being an astute judge of character. Maybe Brandon was hot-headed and enjoyed fighting and sleeping around. That hardly makes him evil - nothing worse than 90% of the lords out there.

[Blue Roses]

I seriously don't get the whole "Brandon was a doucebag rapist" theory. At all. There is next to zero evidence for it. We know he liked to bang Lady Ryswell, who is not exactly the best judge of character and who most defiantly approved of it. We know he was considered wild and hot tempered. We know he humored Cat by defending her honor, beating the snot out of Littlefinger, and letting him live with a scar when she asked him to. We know he died by being chocked to death, trying to reach his baking father. We know Ned loved him (although Ned seemed to not think ill of ANYBODY. He was a pretty amiable fellow) and buried him in the crypt next to Lyanna and his father.

That's it. To me that's a huge leap to assume 1. He would rape anyone 2. He would rape/hishonor a girl he got his very shy brother to dance with in the first place. Not seeing it.

I don't think Brandon raped Ashara just seduced her. I think Ran is definitely onto something with this esp. with Ned's thoughts about his brother in AGOT. Brandon and Lyanna were the wild Starks and Ned & Benjen the dutiful ones. No way would have Ned done anything dishonourable with Ashara. Brandon was the eldest son due to inherit, he was good looking, flashy and obviously a ladies' man. Treated everything as a bit of a laugh as did Lyanna. Nothing wrong with that but I can definitely see him deciding to muscle in on his little brother's love interest and having a bit of fun. Ashara wouldn't have had a hope in hell of resisting him I shouldn't think. Unfortunately that bit of fun resulted in Ashara becoming pregnant. Barristan's thoughts on this matter are interesting: as has been said he thought Ned a decent honourable man as he tires to tell Dany. He also sums up Gerris Drinkwater very quickly as one of those handsome flashy young men who are actually very shallow (or something like that - haven't got the book in front of me) - he's known their type before - wouldn't surprise me if this is a veiled comment on the Brandon type.

[Millardkillmoore]

We know that Pennytree is in the Riverlands and is now a royal fief.

Ser Arlan from the Dunk and Egg stories is from there. I guess Egg made it a royal fief for Dunk's sake.

I love all the little references to the D&E stories. :D

[jack88]

The whole Brandon/Ashara thing is pretty clever imo especially as its presented from Barristan's side ("Stark" dishonored her, but "Eddard Stark" is a good honorable man that Barristan has never had anything bad to say about).

I don't know what exactly it does to R+L=J, or even who Ashara's kid was/could have been, but I think its pretty clever nonetheless

[Ferrous]

We know that Brandon Stark, despite Ned's missing him, was a jerk and possibly a rapist. Ned's father may not have been the most honorable stark in history, either.

What?

We know that Brandon Stark was a bit of a prick in the pov of one of his exe's. Why is this opinion anymore viable than Robert's view of Rhaegar?

Rhaegar was accused of rape, nobody has accused Brandon of rape.

I accept that the evidence points that Brandon's personality was very similar to Roberts.

There is no evidence to suggest either way that Rickard Stark was not honorable.

[Arya the Free Stark]

Yes, Manderley definitely baked Rhaegar Frey and the rest in those pork pies. His delight, his gorging and his request for a song about the Rat Cook are hints.

Why would GRRM be pandering to HBO now when he was already skipping scenes like the WW in the early 90s?

What else?

We know Melisandre doesn't need to eat (from her POV). We know she's got secrets (duh!) concerning her past: Melony, Lot number...

We know the Blackwoods and Brackens have been going at for a long time now :D

We know Egg married for love, and hence allowed his sons to do the same, with detrimental political results.

I think the lot number has something to do with the slave auctions. I remember noticing "lot number.." being said when Tyrion was being sold, so a wild guess would be that either Mel was lot number seven (i think that was the number) or this Melony was, who ever she is.

[evanesco75]

I agree, AtFS.

Re Gerris Drinkwater, he was arrogant and flashy, but he seemed loyal to 'Quent' and brave too.

[slayer420]

we know that anyone who has honor and trys to help people is going to die. Not looking good for dany

[mcbigski]

GRRM is apparently over his fear of weddings, with no one dying at Alys Karstark's or Ramsay Bolton's.

[Ygritte]

I don't think Brandon raped Ashara just seduced her. I think Ran is definitely onto something with this esp. with Ned's thoughts about his brother in AGOT. Brandon and Lyanna were the wild Starks and Ned & Benjen the dutiful ones. No way would have Ned done anything dishonourable with Ashara. Brandon was the eldest son due to inherit, he was good looking, flashy and obviously a ladies' man. Treated everything as a bit of a laugh as did Lyanna. Nothing wrong with that but I can definitely see him deciding to muscle in on his little brother's love interest and having a bit of fun. Ashara wouldn't have had a hope in hell of resisting him I shouldn't think. Unfortunately that bit of fun resulted in Ashara becoming pregnant. Barristan's thoughts on this matter are interesting: as has been said he thought Ned a decent honourable man as he tires to tell Dany. He also sums up Gerris Drinkwater very quickly as one of those handsome flashy young men who are actually very shallow (or something like that - haven't got the book in front of me) - he's known their type before - wouldn't surprise me if this is a veiled comment on the Brandon type.

Yup, and at the time Ashara got pregnant, Ned was unattached while Brandon was betrothed. If Ned was the father, why not marry her?

I agree; I don't think he was a rapist. I think he was a player.

[cteresa]

Yes, I thought Melisandre was Melony and she was sold as lot number 7.

and OMG the pies, I missed that! Thank you! Yes, totally agree.

[Datepalm]

GRRM is apparently over his fear of weddings, with no one dying at Alys Karstark's or Ramsay Bolton's.

Someone got eaten though, thats up there. But yeah, both Alys and Dany managed to get married with a remarkably low body count.

[Swedish Chef]

I thought it was interesting that Tyrion was convinced that Illyrio was involved in these plots for some greater gain than becoming Master of Coin. Which also hints at the motivations of Varys. While Varys is clearly attempting to pave the way for the Targs return, there is still something hidden about his true intentions.