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[ADWD Spoilers] Speculation About the Winds of Winter


Vikingkingq

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My Speculations:

1. Mel is going to raise Jon the way we know the red preist/ess people can. If Jon Snow stays down I'll buy the beer.

2. Arya will not finish her training. Eventually she has to choose between keeping her prayer or giving up revenge.

3. Dany will go back to the place where the dothraki crones are and it is there that she will understand the folly of her previous rule and learn to be a good queen. During that time she'll also learn to "control" the dragon. I think the whole dragon thing is more of a relationship then a person controling a mount.

4. King's Landing will go ape shit, I mean totally ape shit. No Lanister/Tyrell/Martell etc... will be safe. I expect 3 of the characters that survived the epilogue won't see the end of the next book.

5. We will finally see the Others in force (FINALLY!!).

6. UnCat and UnJon will reconcile. <--- :-)

I like it. Especially Dany gaining wisdom at Vaes Dothrak. I am taking your number six with a large grain of salt.

But what about Tyrion?

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... at this point, just reading the word wedding freaks me out. You'd think people would stop showing up to these things given how they always end with horror.

I've been saying that about non-ASoIaF weddings for years ....

:laugh:

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I really wonder what will happen with Stoneheart. I have two alternate theories- 1) is for her to somehow meet up with LF and kill him. Necrophilia/pedophilia + LF's obsesssion with Cat= death. Or 2) Stoneheart will give up her revenge mission upon seeing either Rickon/Bran or Jon Snow. I would love to see crazy UnCat meet crazy UnJonSnow or just normal Jon Snow. It would be good tension to read a chapter like that wondering whether UnCat will have Jon hanged.

Second- Color me excited for Sandsnakes in KL. Lady Nym + Cersei + Mace Tyrell = awesomeness on the small council. Also Undercover Tyene in the Crazy High Septon's presence should be cool as well.

Third- I've been subscribing to Jon Snow as new King of the Wildlings for some time. I like it.

Fourth- I honestly don't have a clue what happened at Winterfell. I would think Stannis wouldn't be killed offscreen, and I would also think that Ramsay Bolton has a somewhat spectacular demise that must happen on-page. That being said both have to be dead eventually imo.

Fifth- Color me just as excited (finally and for the first time) for Samwell's chapters. We got a Sandsnake, a possible rogue FM with a key to the entire Citadel, and an uneasy Sam all hanging out together. This can't end well.

Sixth- Dany returning to Westeros by the end of the book (or at least en route to Westeros) with Tyrion in tow and Arya leaving the FM and using her super-killing powers to take revenge on everyone on her list.

Seventh- Psyched for Davos and Skagos. Have no clue what the heck is happening with Bran and the seemingly unneccesarily creepy vibe coming from Brynden and the COF. I can't imagine Jojen will be alive much longer, but am still holding out hope for Hodor the Knight and Bran/Meera King and Queen in the North.

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Hmm I was nodding along up until #6 and 7. I think Cersei's done for and I could as easily see Aegon dying prematurely as taking Storms End and becoming a force in the War.

I agree I believe Cer is done for as a relevant force. I believe we will see her as a broken shell over the next couple books with an ignobile death.

She will get her own sort of Reek chapters

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I think Sansa is much stronger than Ophelia; but who knows if she'll survive the final page? I could have seen Tyrion becoming King of all Westeros before I read ADWD, but he seems to have become far more bitter and vengeful, and he could easily become a tyrant if he gained absolute power. But we'll see; Tyrion sitting on the Iron Throne would certainly throw all the heroic fantasy tropes into the soup; and GRRM is more than capable of making it happen just to show that he can.

For me, Tyrion taking the Iron Throne would be Hallelujah Party Time, not bittersweet, which makes me sure it won't happen. But as long as I'm demanding ponies, how about this:

Tyrion finds Tysha who is - yes - the Sailor's Wife, but on her deathbed. Her daughter is Tyrion's daughter, a discovery that drains the poison and bitterness from Tyrion's heart and allows him to become the wise benign king who will knit the seven kingdoms back together in peace.

Ha! Beat THAT for hopeless romanticism.

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Rickon had the same dream that Bran did during GoT about dead Ned. Does anyone think he could be a greenseer like bran? Or it could just be green dreams like Jojen. Either way, it could come into effect

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Rickon had the same dream that Bran did during GoT about dead Ned. Does anyone think he could be a greenseer like bran? Or it could just be green dreams like Jojen. Either way, it could come into effect

Great catch. It will be interesting to see how practical Davos reacts to Rickon's green dreams.

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If this is true about Rickon, he may see in his dreams Davos coming for him to bring him to a loyal bannermen and may be able to help him. Davos will need help as it is implied that Davos is nervous/scared of where he has to go to get him.

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If Aegon is fake... (90%)

If Jon's Parents are Lyanna and Rhaegar (99%)

If Tyrion's Parents are Joanna and Aerys (75%)

We probably have best candidates for two remaining Dragon Riders :)

Jon is going to be returned to life via sacrificing Ghost IMO. He MUST die, and he MUST return to fight the others.

I thought it was the other way around with the Lannisters. Tyrion is the true born son of Tywin. Jamie/Cersei are someone else's children (presumably Aerys is the father).

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When Victarion arrives in Meereen he will blow the horn and Rhaegel and Viserion will be under his control. He'll lay waste to Meereen with them and turn, not west, but east. Barristan Selmy will die in the midst of the wreckage.

Dany will return to Meereen with the Dothraki behind her and will see that the city is devastated and the dragons are gone. She'll be reunited with Jorah who has Tyrion in tow. She'll gather her army and turn east after Victarion. Tyrion will soon become Dany's most trusted advisor

Euron will meet up with Victarion at Asshai and will get the drop on him. He'll kill Victarion and take control of the dragons. He'll set sail east from Asshai to circumnavigate the world and land on the west coast of Westeros, at Casterly Rock, which he'll utterly destroy.

Daenerys will have some adventures in Asshai, possibly learn about the coming invasion of The Others before crossing the ocean after Euron. TWOW will end with Danerys landing on Westeros.

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Im on Long Island in NY, I wish the winds I am hearing were The Winds of Winter, but no.. they are from Hurricane Irene battering through as we speak. Dear God/Gods real and fictional make this storm fade away!

I'm in Brooklyn, it seems the old gods have heard you ... go the nearest heart tree and say a prayer of thanks .. lol

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I'm in Brooklyn, it seems the old gods have heard you ... go the nearest heart tree and say a prayer of thanks .. lol

I really might need to. I fell asleep at like 7:30am when they said the brunt of the storm was about to hit and pummel us til like late afternoon. I woke up at 10am when my phone rang expecting to look out and see tornadoes since 10am was supposed to be the worst, and I'm like wait wtf? I turn on the weather and see NY is like clear and the hurricane is gone. The Gods heard me!

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I wonder if the targaryen three heads thing and the PWWP and the Azai azhai will be combined. Like three azai azhai. Dany born among fire and salt. Maybe jon reborn among fire and salt and maybe something to Aegon (who I believe is the real deal). I also think bran and the rest of the starks will be super important (obviously).

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Fair warning, long detailed post here:

I would like to see a kind of shadow war between Littlefinger and Varys. I think its more than obvious that setting up Sansa Stark in Winterfell is far from being Littlefinger's endgame. Sansa has grown on me, but I don't see her and her new allies being anywhere near able to play the game at Littlefinger's level. Maybe his regard for her as a "piece" will blind him to any plots they work against him, but more likely he already has a backup plan in case she turns on him, and her potential plotting may even be part of his original plan. I don't buy the "naive little girl grows up and takes out the political mastermind and he never saw it coming" plot.

Varys and Littlefinger are the only two men in Westeros playing the Game of Thrones at the highest level, and there is enough evidence going all the way back to the first book that shows they are not allied with each other. They may not be direct antagonists, but eventually their plans will begin to interfere with each other. Varys has been spreading seeds of chaos to start a war between Lannister, Tyrell, and Dorne. Meanwhile Littlefinger has been positioning himself in various seats of power. With Tywin and Kevan dead, the Lannisters no longer have players, only pieces. Cersei is a key piece that both Littlefinger and Varys have been playing, counting on her to run the realm into the ground so it can be rebuilt. With that said my theory goes as follows:

Varys: Loyal to the Targaryens, and attempting to restore the Targaryen Dynasty. I believe Varys was being truthful with Kevan that Aegon is the true heir (you know how manipulators love to talk when there's no chance it will hurt them). What would he hope gain at that point by lying to him when his intent was to kill him and make it look like Tyrion's hand? His endgame has essentially been revealed.

Littlefinger: Has been setting himself up in positions of power for years. I disagree with most people who believe his endgame is to be King. I think he is realistic enough to know that even with a Lordship in name he is too lowborn to be accepted as Ruler of the Seven Kingdoms. He literally has no claim, but that doesn't mean he isn't hungry for the power. I think he has been setting up a complete political restructuring of the kingdoms, eliminating the monarchy, with his final goal to set himself up at the top. The Iron Throne is eliminated and the Seven Kingdoms become some Seven States with a seat on a council, with Littlefinger at its head. "President Baelish" if you will, but his would of course be a corrupt republic where he holds all the real power while manipulating the rest of the realm into believing they have any power.

This shadow war will erupt into a full scale war when House Lannister finally breaks. Cersei is the key here. Her paranoid scheming will lead to war with the Tyrells, leading to an eventual end to Tommen's short reign and the fall of House Lannister. During the chaos, Varys will "move his Dragon." A Targaryen savior come to unite the Kingdoms at this time would seem ideal to most of Westeros. Of course, this will lead Littlefinger to make his move in return. I believe initially Dorne and the Stormlands will declare for Aegon, and possibly Highgarden. Littlefinger holds the Vale and the Riverlands, and he appears to have some clout in Highgarden's court (his apparent connection to Lady Olenna and his part in Joffrey's murder which had some Tyrell hand involved). Highgarden could go either way. I still think the Iron Islands will remain on their own path of conquest, and will either have to take a side or be eliminated. I can see Euron working with Littlefinger more than Varys, but in the end you know Euron is a pirate at heart and will turn on him. The North will largely stay out of it until their war with Stannis has settled, but Sansa is Littlefinger's ace in the hole there and unless Davos brings Rickon back from Skagos real soon, Sansa will claim Winterfell and the North. So it seems Littlefinger could ideally have most of the realm at side, potentially possessing all but Storm's End and Dorne. However since Varys's goal has been to restore the Targaryens, I think when Dany finally makes it to Westeros, her army will join with Aegon's to even out the odds. I really don't see Aegon making it to the very end, but I also don't think Varys and Illyrio care what Targaryen is on the throne, as long as its a Targaryen (their conspiracy is a bit convoluted still). With battle all across the Seven Kingdoms with Littlefinger and Varys pulling the strings in the background, the Wall will fall and the Others will invade the realm, putting an end to both sides' schemes.

On a side note, the only way I could see Sansa eliminating Littlefinger from the game is as follows: Sansa learns the truth of Littlefinger's part in Ned's death and any other crimes against the Stark family that may be revealed. The knowledge eats away at her, but she does nothing. At some point, he makes a move on her and all the trauma she suffered at Joffrey's hands comes flooding back, and she kills Littlefinger in a fit of grief and passion. This would be a decent parallel to the time Sansa thought of pushing Joffrey off the battlements, only to be stopped by Sandor. The child couldn't do it, but the strong woman she is growing into can do it to the one who was really behind her Father's death. Nice story for Sansa, although it doesn't move the overall plot much further. It could still happen, but I think the only person in the books capable of successfully plotting against Littlefinger is Varys (or possibly Tywin, who died in a similar way to what I'm describing Sansa doing).

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