The Wedding At The Twins

[The late lady stark]

Of course if one reads closely Dany's visions in the House of the Undying in A Clash of Kings you will have been expecting this for a while. Probably thinking that it would be at Robbs wedding, the only curveball being that it ends up being Ed's wedding.

Naturally I didn't read Dany's visions too closely and it was 3 years between reading aCoK and aSoS so it came as a bolt out of the blue for me, albeit with that sense of dread once Robb had married that Westerling girl. Nothing good comes from marrying westerners.

I actually thought that the "Red Wedding" I'd seen alluded to was going to be Joffrey's wedding, Red being the Lannister Color. So I was pretty shocked.

[The late lady stark]

I was so pissed off and sad after reading this chapter.

I always knew that something terrible was going to happen at a wedding, I read it a while back. But with all the talk of Joffrey's wedding throughout the book I was certain that it would be at his. But no, my most hated character lives and my most loved dies :thumbsdown:

With Ned's death I always knew that no one was safe, so I've always wanted Catelyn to be made aware that Bran, Rickon, and Arya were alive because it would be cruel if she was killed thinking most of her kids were dead.. Then just as she gets so close to finding out her daughter is alive that happens. Devastating.

I just read the next chapter too, and every part of me was hoping that The Hound was gonna go and chop the shit out of Bolton and/or Walder Frey. But nope, something else horrible happens at the end of that chapter.

And that was enough to make me put the book down for a few hours and be devastated.

Edit:

What made it even worse, was finding out what they done to Robb's body. Was pretty disturbing actually. I was hoping that Grey Wind would somehow still be alive and had escaped :(

I'm pinning my hopes on Jon Snow to somehow kill the Frey's and Bolton's after finding out what happens.

Ug. Yes, Catelyns end was so upsetting, the sadness with which she left the world. And I LOVED ROB. I was growing to love him more each time he showed up. So upset he won't be the king.

[Capon Breath]

Just Read the Red wedding (and next Arya Chapter) over the weekend.

Like many posters - shock, was pretty annoyed, worst of all as I was reading it in Bed and my Pregnant wife insisted I turn the light off half way through the chapter so I had to wait until morning to find out what happened !

One interesting side effect of the Red Wedding for me is that A) it made me realise I was quite emotionally attached to the Idea of the Starks as the good guys and B) now a chunk of them are dead (although sneaky suspicion Arya is not) I need a different group of characters to relate to as the books progress.

I quite enjoy this aspect of GRRMs writing - it is challeneging as a reader to have your conceptions crushed and for me it adds to the sense of "an Epic" Characters are dispensable and its the story that takes precendent....

Off topic.

I find Arya annoyiong / pointless

I like Tywin Lannister - think he would make a good King and if you step away from a sense of attachment to the Starks, im not sure hes a particularly bad guy.

[Birdsong65]

I've just finished the third reading of the RW.

It remains a fist in the stomach.

The first time, I was listening to it on audio while driving to work. I'm halfway to work, and the shit hits the fan. I had to pull over, rewind, and re-listen because there was just no freaking way, right? Wrong. All I can say is that it was a good thing I own my own business because by the time I got to work, my mood was so foul I was not fit for human interaction. I went home, to my dogs, and just sat there, not really wanting to continue listening. I know Catelyn is very likely the most polarizing character in the series, but I loved her, and her end was just so obscene, with all that she thought she knew, and all that she didn't know, and Arya outside, and Robb, begging her not to beg for mercy, and her begging him to walk away now, please leave now...just fucking brutal.

But, obviously, I continued reading, while it still remains not quite the same for me. I think the worst part for me, IMHO, is that once you lose that character that you, as a reader, really identified with, you both fear that there won't be another, and you can't view the ones left without a skewed, altered perspective. That, in a nutshell, is great writing.

It also rather describes a broken heart, mourning...you get the idea.

[grandmazter3]

I find Arya annoyiong / pointless

I like Tywin Lannister - think he would make a good King and if you step away from a sense of attachment to the Starks, im not sure hes a particularly bad guy.

I agree about Arya but i still root for her.

But Tywin Lannister is a monster. He disowns his children when they go against him, he had a hand in the Red Wedding and everything the Mountain has done and look at what he did to Tyrion and his first wife.

[Lady Snark]

I agree about Arya but i still root for her.

But Tywin Lannister is a monster. He disowns his children when they go against him, he had a hand in the Red Wedding and everything the Mountain has done and look at what he did to Tyrion and his first wife.

Agree on both. I was getting annoyed with Ayra's little outbursts, but I keep reminding myself how young she is. Of course she would be very defensive and obstinate that she is a girl and wanting to prove she is tough as any guy. And for someone so young, it is harder for her to see the grey in the world. Everything is more black and white. Sandor was the one who killed Micah, so she hates him. She is too young to understand that Sandor was following orders and really had no choice. I love Arya and look forward to seeing how he matures through all the chaos and horror that she is living right now.

Tywin is an evil SOB. To find out that he had a hand in the Red Wedding sealed the deal for me, as well as his use of Gregor Clegane and his men. Nothing will redeem him. He is the worst Lannisters for me.

[NerdStark]

I also never expected red wedding to be like that although a friend warned me about it and i just thought it was Robb attacking Joff's wedding. I did read the part of book of Dany's vision and I even reread it but I thought the vision was about Robb being successful in his wars and killing many enemies.

I hate walder frey and all the freys!

[aryas friend]

Why is it that some authors love to destroy the best features of their creations. I think Martin identifies with the destructive tendencies in his characters, their proclivities for random violence and crushing others' hopes and dreams.

[Toiltoil]

Poor Rob and Greywind, but even if I had hoped for Robb to survive i should have know bether,.

But still, its damn good writing, I had to put the book away after i read it

[Horza]

Yeah, it doesn't get easier on re-read. Instead you start to notice all the little details that something is horribly wrong :(

As for the pain of reading it, well this is what Martin had to say about writing it:

IFB: Through the first four volumes, there have been character deaths a-plenty in the series. Are there any particular characters from the first four books that you have missed or that were the most difficult for you to kill off? On the inverse of that, were there any characters that you don’t really like that much and were easy to remove from the storyline?

GRRM: [laughs] You know, all of the major characters, I can’t say that I miss them. I always knew that they were going to die at a certain point but that doesn’t mean that those scenes were necessarily easy to write. The Red Wedding was the hardest thing I ever wrote. I wrote that last in that book in Storm of Swords. When I actually reached that, it occurs about two thirds of the way through the book; I skipped over it…

IFB: It was hard to read for me as well.

GRRM: Yeah, it was tough, it was emotionally wrenching. You know, some of the small characters I probably kill without thinking but they’re small characters and they’re hardly developed at all. They’re tertiary characters and in some cases just names and if I’m writing a battle scene, you know, and the Night’s Watch is fighting and a bunch of people are going to die, I sort of look at my list of Night’s Watch characters and say ‘ok, this guy dies, this guy dies, this guy dies’. But they’re hardly worth really considering as characters.

link here (beware: is a tiny bit spoilerish on some minor ADWD stuff)

[Jory's Shade]

Yeah, it doesn't get easier on re-read. Instead you start to notice all the little details that something is horribly wrong :(

As for the pain of reading it, well this is what Martin had to say about writing it:

link here (beware: is a tiny bit spoilerish on some minor ADWD stuff)

I actually was most sad to read that the poor little fool, Ageon, in motely got his throat slit. How sad.

[starks]

I don't see how I can even read on after Robb's and Cat's death. It also seems so pointless to since I have always been pro-stark. I'm starting to like even Daeny less and less now.

[Jory's Shade]

Trust me, you should read on and enjoy how great the remaining chapters are. There is no other work in fantasy that equals SoS. I can't believe it took me so long to pick up ASOIAF. My cousin told me about it in 2004 before AFFC came out and I snubbed it because he irritates me. What a fool. Trust me, the Starks are tragic heroes but this story is about the battle for the dawn and not the game of thrones. The characters are all mortal coils toiling along while the destiny of an entire world is being written under the stars.

[Kaisia]

You still have most of the Stark children to root for, and there's some cool stuff coming up, so don't give up now!

[Moester]

I already know what was going to happen waaay before I started reading ASOS. But getting to the part and knowing what was coming next was still hard to stomach. Even when

Joffrey died

it was difficult to feel happy because the characters you root for are dead. But when

Tywin died, hell yeah justice is served!! (well, partially)

Also knowing what was already going to happen made the foreboding signs easier to notice. Like how the Hound kept referencing to the 'bloody' wedding, Catelyn's constant anxiousness prior to the event and her reminding Robb about the guest right.

[A.dor]

I also thought like some that the Red Wedding everyone refered too was going to be Joffrey's. I had looked up which book people recommended as the best in the series before reading, and most picked this one. But after reading this part, I was really disappointed in this book. I loved Robb but I had figured he would die because he was the only Stark (aside from Rickon) who didn't have a POV, but I was still really shocked. I'm not sure if he would still be one of my favorite characters if it hadn't been for the tv show, which I found really added to his character as well.

I started to suspect the wedding would not go well when Catelyn found Robb to talk to him while he was sitting on (or next to) the tombstone of the old King. I thought that might be forshadowing his death, but I didn't expect Catelyn as well (and Grey Wind I suppose, they were all present if I recall).

While watching the show I didn't understand why some on the internet didn't like Catelyn, but I found as I read on in this series her attitude and actions were annoying (even though I can understand to some extent as she had 'lost' a big part of her family). It was probably best that she did die (did she?) so she could join her loved ones.

I also found Arya's wandering redundant, but at least realistic. I loved that she met the Hound though and all that went after. Even though her actions were ''annoying'', I thought they were perfectly realsitic for her age and found that made her character all that much more believable.

[Delta1212]

Before I reached the Red Wedding, I was spoiled to the extent of having heard someone say "Oh god, the Red Wedding" so I knew that there was something called the Red Wedding and that it was a major event. I also think I wound up mentally associating it with Masque of the Red Death, and so assumed it would be a bloodbath. I spent most of the first half of the book praying it would be Joff's wedding and being terrified that it was going to be Edmures.

I think the forewarning blunted the blow of the Red Wedding actually happening, but it made for some really excellent tension as both weddings drew closer and I knew one was going to end badly for the participants. It sort of reached a crescendo as all of the little signs at the Red Wedding started popping up that unease Cat and clues me into the fact that, yes, it was going to be this wedding.

[FreeNightFalls]

I wonder how are they going to portray this scene in the series (I just hope they won't add it in the 2nd season)!

I was crushed and I was depressed for a few hours ... days.

[Jory's Shade]

Before I reached the Red Wedding, I was spoiled to the extent of having heard someone say "Oh god, the Red Wedding" so I knew that there was something called the Red Wedding and that it was a major event. I also think I wound up mentally associating it with Masque of the Red Death, and so assumed it would be a bloodbath. I spent most of the first half of the book praying it would be Joff's wedding and being terrified that it was going to be Edmures.

I think the forewarning blunted the blow of the Red Wedding actually happening, but it made for some really excellent tension as both weddings drew closer and I knew one was going to end badly for the participants. It sort of reached a crescendo as all of the little signs at the Red Wedding started popping up that unease Cat and clues me into the fact that, yes, it was going to be this wedding.

It was quite plain that the Red Wedding was going to cost Robb his life. In CoK, Dany sees a vision in the House of the Undying of a feast where men lay in pools of blood and a man with a wolf's head sat at the head of the table peering over the scene and looking towards her forebodingly. Clearly, you had to know Robb and Grey Wind were goners after that passage. Cat getting her throat cut was a surpise, and the Frey actually sowing Grey Wind to Robb's torso was also a shock.

[Mattyp]

Before I reached the Red Wedding, I was spoiled to the extent of having heard someone say "Oh god, the Red Wedding" so I knew that there was something called the Red Wedding and that it was a major event. I also think I wound up mentally associating it with Masque of the Red Death, and so assumed it would be a bloodbath. I spent most of the first half of the book praying it would be Joff's wedding and being terrified that it was going to be Edmures.

I think the forewarning blunted the blow of the Red Wedding actually happening, but it made for some really excellent tension as both weddings drew closer and I knew one was going to end badly for the participants. It sort of reached a crescendo as all of the little signs at the Red Wedding started popping up that unease Cat and clues me into the fact that, yes, it was going to be this wedding.

I had it ruined by IMDB with some ass hole posting in the thread title 'Robb and Catelyn die!'. Along with various other spoilers. Glad the details weren't spoiled for you though.

I've also had countless other things spoiled, including a big ADWD one on this very forum by some butt nugget.