Reyne Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschalMost of this is fairly straightforward, but there are some obvious questions.Firstly, lion and griffin. Obviously, Connington didn't go to Dany after all. Did Quaithe know this (and the prophecy just meant their direction?) Or did Tyrion upset history somehow with his suggestion?The sun's son and the mummer's dragon are even more strange. We want to think mummer's dragon = Aegon (fake?). But Quentyn had absolutely no contact with Aegon at all. He never even knew Aegon existed. Why in the world would they be grouped together?I have a bit of a crackpot theory that the 'mummer's dragon' is also *Quentyn*. Namely, at the end, he claimed that his Targaryen blood would let him control the dragons (and got incinerated for it.) A bit of a stretch though.And the perfumed seneschal, of course. I kept thinking that this meant the Stinky Steward (Tyrion/Mormont/Moroqqo/etc.'s ship), but then nothing really happened with that. Perhaps Reznak after all? I have the impression Hizdahr was in league with the Sons of the Harpy, but not the Harpy itself (perhaps the Green Grace, but Reznak would work too.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angalin Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Reznak is described as very perfumed, but he doesn't seem to be important enough as a character to show up in a prophecy.I liked that the "pale mare" was not in fact a person, but a plague.eta: As for why Quaithe is trying to help Dany, her reasons might be purely altruistic; which would make her about the only character in the entire series to be described that way. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Reznak is described as very perfumed, but he doesn't seem to be important enough as a character to show up in a prophecy.I liked that the "pale mare" was not in fact a person, but a plague.eta: As for why Quaithe is trying to help Dany, her reasons might be purely altruistic; which would make her about the only character in the entire series to be described that way. ;)Melisandre also seems pretty altruistic, if misguided. And Beric Dondarrion, of course.Quaithe is probably motivated for the same reasons as Melisandre: She knows the Others are coming and wants someone to stop them. She's just better than Melisandre at figuring out who to be helping and what to be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asarlai Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I have a bit of a crackpot theory that the 'mummer's dragon' is also *Quentyn*. Namely, at the end, he claimed that his Targaryen blood would let him control the dragons (and got incinerated for it.) A bit of a stretch though.That was my impression, too, actually. I also had some thoughts about Brown Ben Plumm, but couldn't really put anything together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flea Bottom's Up! Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 The sun's son and the mummer's dragon are even more strange. We want to think mummer's dragon = Aegon (fake?). But Quentyn had absolutely no contact with Aegon at all. He never even knew Aegon existed. Why in the world would they be grouped together?Years ago when the R+L=J theory started kicking around, I hated the idea that Aegon might be still alive. I still believe R+L=J and I'm willing to believe that Aegon is who they say he is.Anyway, to the prophecy... I posted this in another thread but this is what I think it means.Kraken = Victorian It's the symbol of his house.Dark Flame = One of the Red Priests or the Mage from the Citadel (I think that it is the slave mark. But, it could represent the dragonglass candle.)Lion = Tyrion, It's the symbol of his house.Griffin = Connington, It's the symbol of his house.Sun's Son = Quentyn, The Sun is part of the symbol of his house as such it points to his parentage.Mummer's Dragon = Aegon, Lot's of questions about this one.I think that there is something specific in the fact that the Sun's Son and the Mummer's Dragon take a different form then the others. Right now I'm thinking that it has do with who sent that particular individual, but I'm willing to be wrong.I'm not sure what to think about Quaithe but I suspect that there may be a different agenda there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Frank Haven Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Vary's was a mummer once also the dark flame is most likely the archmeaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Dark Flame = Moqorro , whom the ironborn start calling the Black Flame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunbarbw Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Vary's was a mummer once also the dark flame is most likely the archmeasterWhy would Quaithe tell Dany not to trust Marwyn though? As soon as Samwell told him everything he'd found out Marwyn was like "well shit...best hurry to advise the last Targ since the Others are coming."Banking on the Red Priest being the dark flame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Songstress Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 The sun's son and the mummer's dragon are even more strange. We want to think mummer's dragon = Aegon (fake?). But Quentyn had absolutely no contact with Aegon at all. He never even knew Aegon existed. Why in the world would they be grouped together?My thought: Quentyn and Young Griff are both being sent/brought to her (at least until Tyrion redirected Young Griff) as suitors. That's what they have in common and perhaps why they were mentioned together in Quaithe's message.Of course, we know Victarion intends to be a suitor as well, and so could have been grouped with them... but then he was actually sent to Dany with the intent to bring her back to wed Euron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarrileteCosmico Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Why would Quaithe tell Dany not to trust Marwyn though? As soon as Samwell told him everything he'd found out Marwyn was like "well shit...best hurry to advise the last Targ since the Others are coming."Banking on the Red Priest being the dark flame.Because they all intend to use them for their own purposes?I also think Moqorro = dark flame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Crannogman Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 so, if Aegon is the mummer's dragon, then who is he?perhaps the stillborn child of Ashara Dayne? Purple eyes and all...Illyrio acted very strangely when Aegon sets off, and i have heard that Aegon could be he and Serra's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Helman Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 i think that the prophecy was written before GRRM unwound the Mereeneese knot... so that you can't read too much into the order of things.seems pretty obvious to me that the pale mare is the plague, the lion is Tyrion, the Griffin Connington, the Kraken is Vic, sun's son is Quent and the Mummers dragon HAS to be Aegon. The only one that is open to interpretation is the dark flame, which can be in my mind either the red priest or the maester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryJohn Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 perhaps the stillborn child of Ashara Dayne? Purple eyes and all...My first thought after Barristan mentioned Ashara's purple eyes was this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momo Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 so, if Aegon is the mummer's dragon, then who is he?perhaps the stillborn child of Ashara Dayne? Purple eyes and all...Illyrio acted very strangely when Aegon sets off, and i have heard that Aegon could be he and Serra's.That's what I was thinking, too as he said something about - by Serra's hands - at the end of that chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck6275 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Perhapes Aegon is the Mummer's Dragon, and still who he says he is. If Varys is the murmmer, and he set up the rise of Aegon then in a sense Aegon, while still being a Targ, is in fact a Mummer's dragon. Vary's dragon.Everyone assumed Mummer's dragon means a fake dragon, but it could just be possesive. The dragon belonging to the mummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Helman Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 there was a vision in which the "mummer's dragon" was depicted as a big dragon on sticks being led through a parade of happy people.it seems obvious to me that "mummer's dragon" means fake.that doesn't mean, however, that it can't also be possessive and referring to Varys as being behind the psuedo Aegon the entire time. I like it having a double meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It is none Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 i think that the prophecy was written before GRRM unwound the Mereeneese knot... so that you can't read too much into the order of things.seems pretty obvious to me that the pale mare is the plague, the lion is Tyrion, the Griffin Connington, the Kraken is Vic, sun's son is Quent and the Mummers dragon HAS to be Aegon. The only one that is open to interpretation is the dark flame, which can be in my mind either the red priest or the maester.Doesn't it bother anyone else that the prophecy says Tyrion should not be trusted? I LOVE Tyrion and can't see him trying to sabotage Dany> This is a plot twist I am NOT going to like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visenya Vhagar Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 My thought: Quentyn and Young Griff are both being sent/brought to her (at least until Tyrion redirected Young Griff) as suitors. That's what they have in common and perhaps why they were mentioned together in Quaithe's message.Of course, we know Victarion intends to be a suitor as well, and so could have been grouped with them... but then he was actually sent to Dany with the intent to bring her back to wed Euron.I don't see why that would make a difference. Victarion clearly has no intention of bringing her back to Euron. He and Young Griff probably share more common motive than Young Griff shares with Quentyn. I can't imagine that Young Griff isn't the mummer's dragon, but I don't know why he isn't grouped with Connington and Tyrion.I think a better question is, why was she told to trust none of them? In regards to what? Quentyn was not especially untrustworthy, and Tyrion didn't appear to have ill-intentions, either. So why no trust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theepajaro Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Doesn't it bother anyone else that the prophecy says Tyrion should not be trusted? I LOVE Tyrion and can't see him trying to sabotage Dany> This is a plot twist I am NOT going to like.I think Tyrion would tell her not to trust him and would congratulate her on it. Tyrion has already betrayed her. He told Aegon to go West and start conquering to win her hand. If he has much success what is to keep him from marrying Arianne and try to claim the Iron Throne for himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reposado Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I don't think the grouping means anything. "Kraken, dark flame, lion, griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them." sounds terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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