[ADwD Spoilers] Quaithe's Prophecy

[Lord Godric]

the prophecies can be summed up in one sentence, which I wish the masked broad would utter: "Get your ass to Asshai, don't get distracted by any penises on the way."

Win. :bowdown:

[PestilencE]

Has it been considered that "to reach the light you must pass under the shadow" (or whatever) can mean that Dany should keep flying eastward and eastward, pass Asshai by the Shadow, and eventually reach the western shore of Westeros?

[Lord Godric]

Has it been considered that "to reach the light you must pass under the shadow" (or whatever) can mean that Dany should keep flying eastward and eastward, pass Asshai by the Shadow, and eventually reach the western shore of Westeros?

That was always my interpretation.

[Dragonfish]

Has it been considered that "to reach the light you must pass under the shadow" (or whatever) can mean that Dany should keep flying eastward and eastward, pass Asshai by the Shadow, and eventually reach the western shore of Westeros?

Unfortunately, GRRM has said that we will only see Asshai in flashback and memory, if at all.

[Ser Vlad]

I think Aegon is the mummer's dragon, and I think the hint we get is his hair. Now, this relies on something I recall from ASoS, and I haven't read ASoS in around 4 years, so my memory may be hazy.

But as I recall (I will look into ASoS to confirm if I can find the copy) Aegon had black hair after his mother; he never inherited the hair colour of the Targayriens. But this "Aegon" doesn't seem to (why paint his hair blue if his natural hair colour is black?). If that's the case, then this is what might discredit his claim.

[Dragons Dancing]

I don't see why that would make a difference. Victarion clearly has no intention of bringing her back to Euron. He and Young Griff probably share more common motive than Young Griff shares with Quentyn. I can't imagine that Young Griff isn't the mummer's dragon, but I don't know why he isn't grouped with Connington and Tyrion.

I think a better question is, why was she told to trust none of them? In regards to what? Quentyn was not especially untrustworthy, and Tyrion didn't appear to have ill-intentions, either. So why no trust?

Some have theorized that Quaithe is the Harpy. If so, with her special powers she has forseen these future events and maybe has seen where some could be of benefit to Dany. If she is the harpy, why would she tell Dany the truth? I don't trust Quaithe at all and IMO Dany shouldn't either.

[YouKnowNothingJonSnow]

Agree with most on here on whom/what she meant. But I do find it odd that some of those mentioned appear to be in Westeros and not coming at all. Sloppy if GRRM wrote it before the Meereenese know was unraveled, and very un-GRRM like.

Pale Mare = flux. Already arrived in Meereen

And if the order of presentation matches the order of arrival:

Kraken and dark flame = Victorion and Moqorro (who is described as having black skin, I think). Mrawyn with an outside shot.

Lion and griffin = Tyion and Connington. But they are no longer together. Jon is in Westeros.

Sum's son & mummer's dragon = Q arrived before everyone else, and not with Aegon.

Of the six, the fifth mentioned got there first, the first two are on a ship together bearing down on the city, Tyrion is encamped outside, and the other two are in Westeros.

[wtlloyd]

What do y'all suppose it would mean if Tyrion were the mummer's dragon?

[The Lost Lord]

Agree with most on here on whom/what she meant. But I do find it odd that some of those mentioned appear to be in Westeros and not coming at all. Sloppy if GRRM wrote it before the Meereenese know was unraveled, and very un-GRRM like.

Well it makes sense if Quaithe is seeing the people who at that time are on their way to Dany -- if she is seeing the present, rather than the future.

[YouKnowNothingJonSnow]

Well it makes sense if Quaithe is seeing the people who at that time are on their way to Dany -- if she is seeing the present, rather than the future.

True enough, and a good point. But a prophecy that doesn't see into the future is kind of odd. And in her statement, she says they will all come soon after.

If that part is false (that all six are coming), then the whole thing could also be bogus. Which would then call into question everything Dany saw in the House of the Undying.

[Eaglewood]

I was really hoping that 'Dark Flame' would be the outgrowth of Aegon emerging at the head of the Golden Company, wielding one of the likely gifts in Illyrio's crates: Blackfyre.

Holy crap didn't even think of that. Where IS Blackfyre?

[Dragonfish]

I think Aegon is the mummer's dragon, and I think the hint we get is his hair. Now, this relies on something I recall from ASoS, and I haven't read ASoS in around 4 years, so my memory may be hazy.

But as I recall (I will look into ASoS to confirm if I can find the copy) Aegon had black hair after his mother; he never inherited the hair colour of the Targayriens. But this "Aegon" doesn't seem to (why paint his hair blue if his natural hair colour is black?). If that's the case, then this is what might discredit his claim.

Aegon had the classic Valyrian look. It was Rhaenys who had the Martell look.

[Recently]

Hmmm I don't think the order really matters or if they came to her now or not. Presumably she will encounter each and everyone listed (victarion and tyrion should soon enough, and eventually aegon when she finally gets her ass out of meereen).

Its just a simple warning not to blindly trust anyone. Pretty much the same advice tyrion gave to aegon.

[MojoJojo]

Is there a reason to think the Dark Flame is anyone besides Moqorro? I can't think of anyone else who fits. And there's plenty of reason for Dany not to trust him, since he and the rest of the red priests seem to have an agenda entirely seperate from Dany's own.

The mysteriously dead former commander of the golden company was named Blackfyre which is close enough to dark flame.

[Rindill]

RE: bewaring of Tyrion...

Tyrion has repeatedly mentioned in his POVs throughout the series that he's all about House Lannister. Even though he wants to remove those particular members who wronged him, he still wants to protect his House. Which is why he tried to keep Tommen and Myrcella safe, and help secure King's Landing before Stannis' attack.

If it comes down to choosing between the best interests of Dany and the best interests of House Lannister, Tyrion is going to side with his House every time.

Not anymore. Oh, he would probably like to come home as Lord of Casterly Rock. But the situation between him and his sister is irreparable, and will only end with the death of one or the other. He likewise hates Jaime for his deception still (and Jaime doesn't know how to react to Tyrion). Tyrion killed his own lord father, who was the one man who could have ruled the Seven Kingdoms well and ensured Lannister superiority. Tyrion started out ADWD a broken man, but he's slowly become more and more of his old self as time goes on. However, the only way he's going to come back to Westeros will be with a conquering army and a pardon (since he still stands guilty of regicide and kinslaying).

Therefore, his needs must necessarily aline with Daenerys.

[Rindill]

Aegon being the real Aegon doesn't make sense.

Varys set up Dorne's deal to put Viserys on the throne with Arianne at her side.

However, had Aegon (Rhaegar's son) been alive, by rights the throne should pass to him, as the first son's first son.

This doesn't make sense... would Varys have put Viserys on the throne, only to twitter, "Oops, looks like we forgot about the rightful heir, here he is... please step aside Viserys."

[Rindill]

Hmmm I don't think the order really matters or if they came to her now or not. Presumably she will encounter each and everyone listed (victarion and tyrion should soon enough, and eventually aegon when she finally gets her ass out of meereen).

Its just a simple warning not to blindly trust anyone. Pretty much the same advice tyrion gave to aegon.

Does anyone else think Quaithe's intentions are not pure?

R'hollor= Light/fire

Asshai = Dark/shadow (Other)

I find it very possible that Melisandre was corrupted by her time in Asshai (the shadows being magic of "the other"). She mentions that being near the wall has made her sorcery more powerful. What if it is not the wall that is making her sorcery more powerful but being near the north (and others), as she mentions it was powerful in Asshai as well.

Quaithe is using Melisandre's technique of fortune-telling to gain Daenerys "trust" as it were, while saying "don't trust anyone but me". Quaithe seeks to confuse and mislead Daenerys with her north south, east west, bit, and so deliver Daenerys (azor ahai reborn) straight into the hands of "the other".

Even though Melisandre's spells always seem to involve burning this or that, is it not blood magic? After all, Edric Storm's leeched blood was enough to work that one spell. It just happens that burning a body also burns the blood inside it?

[Werthead]

Is there a reason to think the Dark Flame is anyone besides Moqorro? I can't think of anyone else who fits.

Possibility 1:

Moqorro is the perfumed seneschal, as the ship he was travelling on was called the 'fragrant servant'. The Dark Flame is likely Marwyn, as he is the keeper of the obsidian (dark) candles (flame).

Possibility 2:

Moqorro is the dark flame and the perfumed seneschal is Daenerys' servant, and Quaithe missed out on Marwyn. The ship's name, which Tyrion mused on for some time, is a red herring.

Problem with possibility 2: rather obvious and it misses out Marwyn.

Another problem (spoilers from word of GRRM):

Marwyn was originally included in the prophecy as a crow, but this was changed to 'dark flame' in editing. GRRM may have changed his mind altogether and taken Marwyn out and replaced him with Moqorro, or he may have decided to mix up the references.

It's possible that if Quaithe was indeed seeing the people on their way to Daenerys at that moment in time, Moqorro doesn't count, as he was still in Volantis with no plans (at that moment) to go to Slaver's Bay, but then neither does Marwyn, as at that point in the timeline he's still in Oldtown and Sam hasn't arrived yet.

So it's possible the original 'crow' referred to Aemon before his death. But it's more of a stretch to turn him into the 'dark flame'.

There does seem to be a problem here in that if Quaithe's prophecy only refers to things in the present (people on their way to Dany at that moment), then Moqorro and Marwyn should not be included. If it refers to the future, Aegon and Connington shouldn't be included. Oddly, it looks like Quaithe's prophecy was looking forward to a very narrow window of time before the Golden Company had decided to go west but after Moqorro had decided to set out for Slaver's Bay.

[Stinky Steward]

After she rejected him, and because he wanted to learn to ride one in hope of her marrying him.

Come on, trying to steal one's pet dragons is quite an outrageous way for a guest to behave, no? And I don't think it was so romantic, "I'll ride a dragon and then she'll fall into my arms." I somehow don't expect Dany would've been thrilled even if Q managed to ride one. Anyways it was all politics: Q specifically told his sidekicks that the dragons were more important than Dany. I mean he sounded like an okay guy overall and I feel sorry for him, but he totally got in over his head past the point of honesty and good sense. Poor git.

Yes, it's plausible that he could've been the mummer's dragon as well as the sun's son.

[fybonacci]

Maybe mummer's dragon is Penny's dog... or pig. She's a mummer, and her mounts surely pretend to be dragons from time to time. You can never trust a prophesy.