[ADwD Spoilers] Azor Ahai and Jon

[Lady of Casterly Rock]

I believe AA and tpwwp are one and the same and that three make up one. Think about it people remember what Aemon said. He realized that him and Rhaeger read the prophecy( Theprophecy about the prince) wrong and that the dragon was genderless and HAD THREE HEADS!!! The three that make up one the last remaining Dragons. Daenerys,possibly Jon and someone else.

I think AA is actually 3 people. I remember in the 4th book when Aemon realized that him and Rhaeger read the prophecy wrong and that it wasn't a prince who was promised because THE DRAGON IS GENDERLESS,this implies that the prince is a targaeryen, he also says something that pops up alot, the dragon has three heads. So I'm guessing its going to be 3 people... The last three dragons daenerys, maybe Jon, and someone else?

After reading ADwD I guess that tptwp and AA reborn are two different persons. tPtwp is Dany and AA reborn is Jon.

Quoting myself from the general AsoIaF Replying to Are Azor Ahai and the PWWP one and the same? thread:

I agree that Maester Aemon clearly thinks that the prince that was promised and Azor Ahai reborn are the same. In a Strom of Swords he asks Melisandre. “It is the war for dawn you speak of, my lady. But where is the prince that was promised? And Melisandre answers: “He stands bevor you. Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai come again, the warrior of fire.” This shows that Melisandre also belives that Azor Ahai reborn and the prince that was promised are the same.

In A feast for crows Aemon says:

It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought… the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my believe when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King´s Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was sure the bleeding star had to be a comet…

I´m not sure, if this means that Rhaeger belived that the prince that was promised and Azor Ahai reborn are the same, too.

Aemon tells Sam: Dragons. The grief and glory of my House, they were. … I see them in my dreams, Sam. I see a bleeding star in the sky. I still remember the red. …My brothers dreamed of dragons too, and the dreams killed them, every one. Sam, we tremble on the cusp of half-remembering propheties, of wonders and terrors that no man now living could hope to comprehend…”

And later: The prophecy… my brothers dream … Lady Melisandre misread the signs.

This leads me to the assumption that the prince that was promised was a dream Aegons brother Daeron had.

As far as I know the words of the prophecy are never told so we can´ t be sure, if Daenerys being the princess that was promised means she is Azor Ahai reborn, too. Does anybody know if part the words of the prophecy for the prince that was promised are given in the books?

Perhaps Dany is the princess who was promised, who was able to awake the dragons again and someone else, perhaps Jon, it Azor Ahai reborn.

[Steve Moss]

After reading ADwD I guess that tptwp and AA reborn are two different persons. tPtwp is Dany and AA reborn is Jon.

Don't foget the Last Hero. There are three mythic figures we are aware of (perhaps all combined into one, or not). The Last Hero, the PtwP and AA.

[PantheraOnca]

There is a whole lot that we don't know. And until we do know (Howland Reed making an appearance would be more than satisfactory) all we have are theories, though admittedly some are more likely than others. But until it is resolved (if it ever is) then we should dismiss those we don't agree with out of hand.

While I would LOVE to see Howland Reed at least as a character, if not a POV character, I have this sneaky suspicion that he will never appear in the story.

[cteresa]

William can become a Bill, Eddard a Ned, or John a Jack. Nick naming conventions is not anywhere near universal.

Yes, but so far from canon, the only nickname for Aegon we have seen yet is Egg. Jon pronounced differently. It´s a very far stretch.

And yes, we can discount that if the vision is TRUE past, it CAN`T have been Jon. If Rhaegar and Jon and Lyanna (where´s Ned?)then it´s a future which never happened, and it is not logical to consider it a sign for anything.

[pat5150]

This is my only real objection with the Jon=Azor Ahai theory.

You see, Ser Patrek of King's Mountain and his star sigel comes from a sports bet GRRM made with a fan. The sigel, in fact, is the star of the Dallas Cowboys.

It's quite possible that GRRM just wanted to use this as an excuse so we aren't certain (and another reason why he wanted to delay ADWD - so that he had enough time to lose the bet!) It would be rather hilarious how the grand imagery of the prophecies turn out to be so much mundaneness. But the star could also turn out to be absolutely nothing.

Guys,

Ser Patrek of King's Mountain is based on me. King's Mountain is in reference to Montreal (Royal Mount).

George likes me well enough, true. But I sincerely doubt that Ser Patrek has anything to do with the Azor Ahai... :shocked:

Patrick

[kingkiller]

Also anyone notice how Jon couldn't draw Longclaw? At that point in time he only had a minor wound in his neck, yet his fingers grew weak and clumsy. By all accounts he should have had no problem drawing his sword since he had been in high pressure combat situations many times before, so why did was he unable to get his sword out at a critical moment?

It's because Longclaw is not his true sword (it never really was anyway, it's the Mormonts sword)

Lightbringer is.

Except, where IS Lightbringer?

I honestly think Lightbringer truly is Dawn, one because the two names are basically synonyms. Dawn brings light.

Also because the red comet was a sign of AA's coming and Dawn was forged from a similar object: a fallen star.

Only problem is obviously Dawn belongs to the Daynes, but maybe that was not always so. Maybe it's theirs to keep safe until AA is reborn, and with no worthy Daynes currently able to wield Dawn, it is ripe for the taking.

[Steve Moss]

Guys,

Ser Patrek of King's Mountain is based on me. King's Mountain is in reference to Montreal (Royal Mount).

George likes me well enough, true. But I sincerely doubt that Ser Patrek has anything to do with the Azor Ahai.

The fact that you are not privy to his plot merely demonstrates GRRM's fiendish cunning. He is hiding AA where we least suspect and his presence are announced by signs which are otherwise not remarkable.

[Ninotchka]

I'm buying the wanderer's theory :agree: seems to me more possibly accurate with all the AA stuff, a red star, isn't it? I didn't realize it was in the sky in this book, but if it is... then we have the bleeding star, the smoke, the salt, and maybe the dragons will come later "out of stone" (I keep thinking about greyscale, dunno why it seems pretty possible :dunno: )

And yes, I think AA, tPtwP and the last hero are three diferent persons, and the three of them also can be the three heads of the dragon :thumbsup: Dany, Jon and maybe Aegon if he's the real thing, or Tyrion, or Bran, if the last hero is about northmen and not Targaryen? Dany=fire, Bran=ice, Jon=both? :shocked:

[ViennaGirl]

and maybe the dragons will come later "out of stone" (I keep thinking about greyscale, dunno why it seems pretty possible

I keep thinking Tyrion (dragon) might have gotten greyscale (stone) and someone will have to wake him out of it (cure him? revive him?) I hope he doesn't have it, but he did fight the stone man and fall in the river...

[Été]

Maybe the third dragonrider gets greyscale and Jon has to give them the red god's kiss of life? I got the impression Beric only died because Cat had been dead so long she required a lot of extra power, and his many resurrections had already weakened him significantly.

[The North Remembers!]

Crackpot theory based on the undying visions in which Dany saw a king with a glowing red sword and blue eyes that cast no shadow:

Jon becomes a wight thus being reborn with blue eyes, but keeps his spirit alive through warging with Ghost (ghosts definitely don't cast shadows and I'm not sure about wights). As Ghost he does some serious communicating with Bran/Summer/weirwoods and finds out about his legacy (R+L=J)and the story of Azor Ahai. He comes to believe that he is Azor Ahai and in the most dramatic warging ever takes back his old body. Then he finds longclaw and plunges it into Ghost (Nissa Nissa). He then proceeds to go all Chuck Norris on the bad guys.

I think it might be missing some waking of stone dragons or something, but hey I gave it a shot.

[Saracen]

I think Jon will return as a wight because of well Dany's vision. But I also believe he will be a good wight because his dragon blood can fight the bitter cold.

[It is none]

I think Jon will return as a wight because of well Dany's vision. But I also believe he will be a good wight because his dragon blood can fight the bitter cold.

I'm with you on this theory. The shining blue eyes and the black ice armour sound like Jon will rise again as a wight. Dead bodies are burned to keep them from rising as wights but could be Jon's dragon blood makes him immune to this just like Dany was to Drogo's funeral pyre. His sword may be thrown on a funeral pyre along with his body and he plucks it out of the flame as he rises= filling "the red sword out of the fire " part of the prophecy. Undead Jon is still better than no more Jon.

[Crow's Eye]

And yes, I think AA, tPtwP and the last hero are three diferent persons, and the three of them also can be the three heads of the dragon :thumbsup: Dany, Jon and maybe Aegon if he's the real thing, or Tyrion, or Bran, if the last hero is about northmen and not Targaryen? Dany=fire, Bran=ice, Jon=both? :shocked:

I'm starting to come around to this point, especially considering that we recently (conveniently?) found out that the AA=PwwP idea was an unfortunate falsehood. My bet at this point is Dany (PWWP), Jon (AA), and Bran (LH). I can't recall - do we have some reason to believe that the LH is supposed to come again, or was it just a story of that hero?

[fancySansa]

So we all know that at the House of the Undying, Dany sees Rhaegar and Elia and baby Aegon and Rhaegar says "There must be one more, the dragon has three heads." Aegon is his second child, so he now has two children, and needs one more. In ADWD, in a Jon Connington chapter (p.809) he remembers how after Aegon's birth the maesters told Rhaegar that Elia would bear no more children, but he still needed one more. So that one more comes from Lyanna and it's Jon Snow? But I confuse myself, because the chronology might not be right, if Jon is older than "Young Griff" Aegon (was that kid's age ever given? He seemed younger than Jon).

Of course, since Rhaegar's daughter is long dead, they're still one dragon head short, which might be where Dany comes in (Dany is still technically part of Rhaegar's bloodline). And if this Young Griff isn't really Aegon, then who will take his place--I have no idea. Now I'm confusing myself. Well, I was just thinking. And if anyone can clear up the chronology on the births of Jon and Aegon for me, that'd be awesome. I really have no idea what I'm talking about but it's all very interesting to me, so I like to speculate =)

Jon is probably AA, or maybe AA is a combo of all three dragon heads. Though I need to get a better grasp on all the prophecy hints/details.

Also, I don't like Dany, and she could die and I'd be fine with it (a la Nissa Nissa...though I don't really believe that theory).

[Elrick]

I am so depressed now... I fear that Jon is dead and he was one of my favorite characters! :(

I know a lot of people dislike him and bring up 'cliche' personally I think that word seems to be overly used to the point I have to grind my teeth. I still like Jon and now he's dead...

[AngryJohn]

This is my only real objection with the Jon=Azor Ahai theory.

You see, Ser Patrek of King's Mountain and his star sigel comes from a sports bet GRRM made with a fan. The sigel, in fact, is the star of the Dallas Cowboys.

It's quite possible that GRRM just wanted to use this as an excuse so we aren't certain (and another reason why he wanted to delay ADWD - so that he had enough time to lose the bet!) It would be rather hilarious how the grand imagery of the prophecies turn out to be so much mundaneness. But the star could also turn out to be absolutely nothing.

LOL, and he gets killed by a giant. LOL Martin.

[Calico]

The prophecy says he will be REBORN amidst smoke and salt and everything else, not die. So when he finally returns to being fully human, this is when you will see the smoke and bleeding stars. Or so I hope.

[kingkiller]

My bet for Nissa Nissa is Melisandre, not Ghost. Here's why:

1- Ghost and Jon are basically one in the same. It's hard to have one without the other.

2- Melisandre is a true servant of R'hllor and would love nothing more than to contribute in any way to AA's rebirth. She would give herself willingly. We know she is always warm, so plunging a sword into her heart could possibly make it glow and always be hot.

As a possible counterpoint to #1, maybe Jon will have to kill Ghost anyway to become Azor Ahai and stop being Jon Snow. Kill the boy for good.

[fadedblacks]

Didn't GRRM say in an interview that Jon Snow would become a grayer character, if that's the case Azor Ahai might not be a 'Crystal Direwolf Jesus'.