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[ADwD Spoilers] Is Jon handsome?


jurble

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I imagine he looks like very much like the Starks in the crypts at Winterfell, and his father for that matter, since the descriptions of the three often overlap. Much is always made of their long-faces, although, unless I mistake myself, Jon's doesn't carry a beard. Melisandre and Sam, at least, never seem to mention one.

Having said that, given the general coolness of his character, he probably cuts a very severe figure. Grey, unblinking eyes, long face, dispassionate persona, dark hair. He's not very tall but quite thin. In other words, he's altogether non-descript, but if anything, he just looks like a typical Stark. I imagine he looks a lot like Arya -- same hair color, same eyes, also a long face, skinny, and so forth.

Sorry if anyone has posted this before but...

Jon Snow walks into a bar.

The bartender asks, "Hey, why the long face?"

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He is not thin or short.

He is just a First Man build and not an Andal build.

He is still a noble with a high protein/high calcium diet who has had martial training almost daily since he was a young boy.

Ignore the TV series some of their casting is appalling, like the guy who plays Loras Tyrell looking like the heaviest thing he has ever lifted is a silk hanky.

Also I very much doubt in 17 or so years noone has noticed he doesn't have dark Stark eyes but Targayen eyes (which aren't purple, purple is a Dayne thing)

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This seems as good a thread as any to ask, why isn't there any gay activity at the Wall? Seems unrealistic considering that all-male situations like prisons and boarding schools are full of it.

Dolorous Edd crushing on Jon would have really spiced up that plotline...

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Jon is so not Dany's type. He's exactly like Ned Stark (his father/uncle/whatever), except for the fact that he has a direwolf. Dany would actually fall for Jaime Lannister - if he hadn't killed her father, that is. And if Oberyn Martell had come seeking Dany's hand, she would have had her clothes off in a flash. But Jon? She would have thought him serious and sullen, rather like Alys did - but unlike Alys, she would have become bored with him.

With that said, I think a large part of Jon's attractiveness comes from the fact that he's an honorable and effective leader, and very masculine. The old Kings of Winter would have approved of his manliness quotient, except for the "lord's kiss" which would have disgusted them.

In all fairness, Daenerys isn't at all Jon's type either. I don't know how this relationship is going to work at all.

He is not thin or short.

Actually, he is thin. He is described as such multiple times. Starting when we are first introduced to him via Bran's POV.

And he is not short if you want to compare him to someone like Littlefinger, but he is no more than average height. He is shorter than all the Baratheon brothers though, as well as Jaime Lannister, the Hound, and probably all three men that Daenerys has slept with.

This seems as good a thread as any to ask, why isn't there any gay activity at the Wall? Seems unrealistic considering that all-male situations like prisons and boarding schools are full of it.

Dolorous Edd crushing on Jon would have really spiced up that plotline...

Mole's Town.

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This seems as good a thread as any to ask, why isn't there any gay activity at the Wall? Seems unrealistic considering that all-male situations like prisons and boarding schools are full of it.

Dolorous Edd crushing on Jon would have really spiced up that plotline...

I'm sure there is, and Jon just hasn't noticed because he's stricter about his vows than the others. The rest of the NW doesn't see going to prostitutes as breaking their vows, but Jon does; I imagine he'd apply that to banging the other NW guys too, even though there's no chance of pregnancy. Jon's just more prudish than the others. ;)

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And we all know women love him. ;)

I always got the impression that the Tullys were more classically handsome/beautiful than the Starks, thus Sansa would win more beauty contests than Arya and Robb more than Jon if it came down to strictly physical looks alone. I see Lyanna as more charismatic than conventionally beautiful; I don't think she was UNattractive, but I don't think her looks were why people admired her and thought of her as beautiful. (As opposed to, say, Ashara Dayne.) And Jon looks just like her, and I think he's also not-gorgeous but that a lot of women are drawn to his demeanor.

I think Lyanna was conventionally attractive and her personality just enhanced it because even Kevan Lannister called her a wild beauty but then said that Cersei was better. He was biased but did acknowledge her beauty.

I also think that people consider her unattractive because people say that she looks like Arya. Two people can look alike though with one being ugly and the other good-looking.

The guy who plays Jaimie looks like Aaron Eckhart to me as well as a few other actors and I would call him attractive and Aaron ugly.

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I think Lyanna was conventionally attractive and her personality just enhanced it because even Kevan Lannister called her a wild beauty but then said that Cersei was better. He was biased but did acknowledge her beauty.

I also think that people consider her unattractive because people say that she looks like Arya. Two people can look alike though with one being ugly and the other good-looking.

The guy who plays Jaimie looks like Aaron Eckhart to me as well as a few other actors and I would call him attractive and Aaron ugly.

Oh, I don't think she was UNattractive--just not, as you say, in Cersei's league, or Ashara's, probably even Catelyn's when Catelyn was young. I also think Arya will grow into her looks; I think the long Stark face probably looks more severe on a child and also she's chronically unkempt. Take the very same girl, age her to late teens, and give her a bath and a flattering outfit, and she'd be considered pretty (if not gorgeous).

I suspect, too, that there's a tendency in Westeros to assign "beauty" and "ugliness" based partially on actual features and partially on whether the woman is living up to gender norms. Brienne is unattractive, but I doubt she'd be mocked quite so much if she weren't also nonconforming. Arya, too, takes heat for not being feminine. The idea I get of Lyanna was that she struck a balance between being a tomboy sometimes and wearing dresses sometimes, and so she got less flak for the tomboy thing.

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Jon's just more prudish than the others. ;)

Jon has zero gaydar and not much imagination. He doesn't seem to understand why the others think it's strange for him to take Satin as a squire. He could see two brothers of the watch clasping hands and staring passionately into each other's eyes, and think something like "Good! Morale is up among the troops!"

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He could see two brothers of the watch clasping hands and staring passionately into each other's eyes, and think something like "Good! Morale is up among the troops!"

Sad, but true. Jon is pretty dense when it comes to a lot of things.

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In all fairness, Daenerys isn't at all Jon's type either. I don't know how this relationship is going to work at all.

Oh, I think Dany could very well be Jon's type. He likes fiery women who come on to him. Though at this point she'd probably be a culture shock for him, what with the decadent Orientalist trope that she invokes. Not sure her bisexuality and predilection for live porn would sit well with someone as austere as Jon.

The rest of the NW doesn't see going to prostitutes as breaking their vows, but Jon does; I imagine he'd apply that to banging the other NW guys too. Jon's just more prudish than the others

Sure. And gay NWmen could certainly satisfy their urges at Mole's Town just like the straight ones. But isolated brotherhoods do tend to foster strong emotional and physical bonds among their members. Consider the Catholic priesthood: all those guys *could* cheat and have sex with women or random men, but a lot of them end up having sex with other guys in their own community (including altar boys, ew). This could have led to some mighty colorful scenes, and I feel GRRM missed that opportunity. The Night's Watch cast in ADWD isn't that well characterized except for Dolorous Edd, so it would have been a real boon to the story if one of those other guys (Bowen Marsh, or another important character who currently has no personality) had brought some sexual tension to the mix that the reader could have picked up on, even if Jon didn't. As it is, they're all pretty interchangeable.

Also, I would think that a young, fit LC with a wolf and a Valyrian sword would inspire certain feelings in some of his brothers. Too bad GRRM didn't show us any of that. In an otherwise richly drawn world with all kinds of people, he has really skirted the open depiction of gay men.

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Jon has zero gaydar and not much imagination. He doesn't seem to understand why the others think it's strange for him to take Satin as a squire. He could see two brothers of the watch clasping hands and staring passionately into each other's eyes, and think something like "Good! Morale is up among the troops!"

LOL yeah, I know.

Which is kinda sad because I want him to have a gay relationship with someone.

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Oh, I think Dany could very well be Jon's type. He likes fiery women who come on to him. Though at this point she'd probably be a culture shock for him, what with the decadent Orientalist trope that she invokes. Not sure her bisexuality and predilection for live porn would sit well with someone as austere as Jon.

Daenerys halfway thinks she's literally a dragon and that she has some sort of divine right to rule a land mass she's never even seen before. I don't know. From what I can tell, Jon is inclined to dislike or disfavor all noble women (i.e., Cersei, Catelyn, Selyse, and so forth) for this very type of attitude. If there is one thing Jon seems to hate, it's presumption and Daenerys is, if anything, presumption incarnate.

As for looks, truthfully, we have little to go on. I think the only women that Jon has directly described as comely are Cersei and Val, and that's a really generalized opinion because every man thinks the same.

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And gay NWmen could certainly satisfy their urges at Mole's Town just like the straight ones. But isolated brotherhoods do tend to foster strong emotional and physical bonds among their members. Consider the Catholic priesthood: all those guys *could* cheat and have sex with women or random men, but a lot of them end up having sex with other guys in their own community (including altar boys, ew). This could have led to some mighty colorful scenes, and I feel GRRM missed that opportunity.

:agree: Now there are women in Castle Black, but 8.000 years of male exclusivity should have driven to a high homosexual activity, enough for any to percibe, even if he, as Jon, chose to close his eyes to such things as broken vows :rolleyes: I bet there are many brothers that play with each others, as there must be many (even Jon, I guess) that play with themselves. They are human, aren't they? :dunno:

Dolorous Edd crushing on Jon would have really spiced up that plotline...

:lmao: Gods, I would have LOVE it! :lmao: "M'lord, you have such eyes... er... not that I'm saying you shouldn't have them, 'course, but... they're so... Are you breaking your fast here, m'lord? :wub: " Come on, it would be priceless :lmao:

Castle-raised + wolf + LC + valyrian sword + young + wears black + unavailable + trustworthy and serious + interesting scar + wounded and a little emo = hot. There's no doubt about it.

Hell, yes :drool:

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Daenerys halfway thinks she's literally a dragon and that she has some sort of divine right to rule a land mass she's never even seen before. I don't know. From what I can tell, Jon is inclined to dislike all noble women for this very attitude. If there is one thing Jon seems to hate, it's presumption and Daenerys is, if anything, presumption incarnate.

It's true that as a bastard Jon would be most comfortable with girls of more modest pedigree and expectations, but his current rank puts him on the level of the nobility, and he gets along fine with Alys Karstark, so I wouldn't necessarily conclude that he dislikes noblewomen or would rule them out if he were in a position to be with them. I agree that Dany's exalted view of herself represents a challenge, but no more to him than to any other (non-crazy-Grejoy) guy in the story. He seems to like women who buck traditional gender roles, and if he's open-minded enough to have a relationship with a spearwife, it's not too much of a stretch to think he might be attracted to an assertive but non-combatant queen who's hot for him. And the thing about Dany is that she isn't remotely snobby in spite of all her delusions of grandeur. She has the "common touch" and relates comfortably and intimately with many of her subordinates.

I absolutely agree that Jon would never come on to her and would likely find her intimidating. But he might be receptive if she made the first move and wasn't going to take no for an answer. I think, realistically, very few men would turn her down.

As for looks, truthfully, we have little to go on. I think the only women that Jon has directly described as comely are Cersei and Val, and that's a really generalized opinion because every man thinks the same.

Yeah, personality counts for more than looks with him.

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I have always pictures Jon as looking like my avatar. Even after the show I don't see him as Kit Harrington, where I do see Dany, Ned, Jorah, Drogo, Viserys, Varys, Jamie, Cersie and others as their characters.

I'm a straight guy, so I've never wondered about Jon looking good or not, but I would have to say from the text is not not an ugly man. He is not the most jaw dropping guy in the world from what I can tell, but he is definitely an attractive person.

Here is a link to the photo in a larger resolution.

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Yeah, personality counts for more than looks with him.

This quality makes him attractive, too.

In addition to the outcast/lone wolf thing he has going on.

Plus he actively tries to prevent helpless people from dying. Old style gallantry. That's hot.

LOL, I just listed the reasons why *I* think he's attractive. No idea if he's actually handsome. Tyrion thinks that Aegon is swoon-worthy, but doesn't say the same about Jon.

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