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Why do we feel there's a "need" for big-name actors?


They_China_Food

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Here, and elsewhere, I've seen numerous threads suggesting that with the departure of Sean Bean, Mark Addy and Jason Momoa, there's now a "need" for big-name actors to replace them. We were all sure that whoever they chose for Stannis would be a super-recognizable name, to the point where someone suggested to me that Christopher Eccleston (Doctor Who himself) was not a big enough name. The man we got isn't anyone's definition of a big star, and as a result, the bemoaning of a lack of big-name actors for Season Two has begun anew.

But I'm curious; why do we feel that we must have big-name actors for this show? Seriously. Look at HBO's history and see how many "big stars" you see there.

Oz had a collection of character actors, most of whome were "famous" on a "hey, it's that guy" level, if at all. Several became well-known later, but weren't then.

The Sopranos had James Gandolfini (who was really more of a somewhat recognizable character actor) and pretty much no one else recognizable, until Steve Buscemi joined.

Had you heard of ANYONE from Six Feet Under's cast before the show began?

The Wire was another collection of character actors, many of whome were only familiar if you watched Oz or Law & Order (or Homicide) religiously.

Carnivale, again, was mostly character actors who might be familiar to fans as far as faces are concerned, but nobody on that show can be called a "big star". No, not even Clancy Brown.

Rome was a collection of British character actors, the only one familiar to American audiences being Ciaran Hinds, and even then, mostly as a "hey, it's that guy". Believe it or not, before Rome, nobody knew who Kevin McKidd, Ray Stevenson or James Purefoy were.

Deadwood had many noted character actors in its cast, but again, none of them were famous beyond a "hey, it's that guy" level. Even Brad Dourif is mostly "that creepy guy from the Lord of the Rings movies". Granted, Ian McShane is a huge name today, but that's THANKS to Deadwood. Ditto Timothy Olyphant, who was "the guy from Scream 2" before this.

Big Love, In Treatment and True Blood were built around having a single recognizable actor in the lead role, and a bunch of nobodies (or in In Treatment's case, a number of somewhat recognizable actors for a single season only) in the other roles.

Treme has...uhm...that guy from That Thing You Do and the woman who swore while accepting her Oscar this past year...what's her name? (I know their names; that's my impression of America)

Boardwalk Empire has Steve Buscemi and nobody else that's familiar to most people unless they're fans of The Wire and Revolutionary Road.

According to popular belief among GoT fans, the only shows on this list that anyone should remember at all were the last three (only one of which has a sizable audience) and no one should have even heard of The Sopranos or Deadwood or any of the others.

We don't need actor's at Sean Bean's fame level in order for the show to survive. We just don't. For that matter, as one person said on another thread here, even Sean Bean is mostly known as "that guy from the Lord of the Rings movies who died in the first one" and Momoa is only just starting to be well-known because ads for the new Conan movie are coming out now. Even Addy is mostly "that guy who replaced John Goodman in the Flintstones sequel".

When compared to the character actors in the shows mentioned above, well, heck, even now we've got Lena Headey, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Iain Glen, Aidan Gillen, Julian Glover, Owen Teale, James Cosmo, Carice Van Houten, Stephen Dillane and Liam Cunningham. Big stars? No. "Hey, it's that guy" level well-respected supporting actors? Definitely. We're not hurting, even compared to other HBO shows.

But even if we were, instead of being "the show starring this well-known actor", I'd much rather be "the show that made stars out of Peter Dinklage, Kit Harington, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Richard Madden, and so many others.

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Well, the thing is, HBO is a buisness, and they need to make money. Yes, they care about the quality of the product, but HBO has canceled shows before. If Carnivale or Rome had bigger stars would more poeple have tuned in? Maybe. There's prolly more than a couple fans who tuned in for Sean Bean alone. There's no question, to me, that stars can bring an audience in with them. People who want big stars on the show want this to encourage more people to watch.

Now, I agree that the show has some rising stars. Peter Dinklage got an article in Rolling Stones, and some other actors seem to be getting more noticed. But this show is expensive. It doesn't matter that Treme doesn't get great ratings, because that show is pretty cheap. Game of Thrones is expensive. We're all just afraid that it'll get canceled.

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While I agree with you, I'd have to say Treme has some reasonably big names. Steve Zahn is pretty popular right now, and I know quite a few people who know him by name, and many others know his face. John Goodman and Melissa Leo are reasonably well known (Compared to your other examples, atleast) and David Morse has been in a ton of stuff (He's more of a 'hey, it's that guy' type person to most people, but still).

Other than that, I agree with you. HBO is definately a star-maker, not a star-caster. They also tend to reuse actors alot, so I'm lobbying for Zeljko Ivanek in, well, any role.

In 10-15 years people will know Game of Thrones as the show that launched the careers of (Primarily) Maisie Williams and Kit Harington. It is known.

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Now, I agree that the show has some rising stars. Peter Dinklage got an article in Rolling Stones, and some other actors seem to be getting more noticed. But this show is expensive. It doesn't matter that Treme doesn't get great ratings, because that show is pretty cheap. Game of Thrones is expensive. We're all just afraid that it'll get canceled.

I think the DVD sales of the series will be a strong indicator of the lasting power the series might have. So much money is made these days through DVD sales, and I know some people who weren't willing or able to pay for a HBO subscription, but are planning on buying the DVDs soon as they come out. Plus, the series has sold well and done extremely well in the overseas market, which while it won't save the show if it tanks in the U.S., it will be a way to the defray the costs that Carnivale (and possibly Rome?) didn't have.

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Part of the desire is because as fans we want the show to be given every chance to succeed possible - getting a big name hopefully means a talent as well as a draw just by name recognition alone.

Do I think it needs big names? No, but for those reasons above I would prefer to see some name power associated to the title.

D&D are names themselves, but since we don't see them on screen, they don't have that same impact.

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The reason there is a belief that "big name actors" are required is that fantasy, even low fantasy, is not considered enough of a draw for mainstream viewers.

I'd say that Sean Bean was the only "big name actor" in AGoT. He's was also the main antagonist in Patriot Games (where he died before the end of the movie ;) ).

I've seen very few "big name actors" reallistically mentioned for parts other than older actors like Dame Maggie Smith or Dame Judi Dench. With the big exception being Antonio Banderas for the Red Viper. Maybe in the older "Dream Cast" threads, but then that is if there were no budgetary concerns.

I'd say that Clancy Brown is a bigger name actor than any that have beein in AGoT, with the exception of Sean Bean.

Now, a lot of the actors that have been mentioned may be pretty big in "genre" shows. But that is a lot different than being an "A-list" actor. Sean Bean would fall in the category of B-list actor for me. I think most people think it would be nice to have one B-list actor per season. And the rest of the cast being filled out with C, D, and unknowns.

GH

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I agree. The Wire didn't have anyone I knew, and was stronger for it.

The supporting cast, and the child actors, are great achievements of season 1. The cast thus far announced for season 2 seems to follow the trend.

I can't wait to see who they are casting in iconic roles like Qhorin Half-Hand, Jaqen H'gar, Strong Belwas and Salladhor Saan. All I know is they will all surely be played by people I have never heard of, and that they'll knock them out of the park. :cheers:

Perhaps casting Sean Bean will have led to some kind of star expectation, I don't know, but I'm sure HBO can survive without the fickle star-chasing audience.

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But I'm curious; why do we feel that we must have big-name actors for this show? Seriously. Look at HBO's history and see how many "big stars" you see there.

The Sopranos had James Gandolfini (who was really more of a somewhat recognizable character actor) and pretty much no one else recognizable, until Steve Buscemi joined.

Lorraine Bracco was probably better known than Gandolfini before Sopranos.

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Sean Bean would fall in the category of B-list actor for me. I think most people think it would be nice to have one B-list actor per season. And the rest of the cast being filled out with C, D, and unknowns.

GH

As I mentioned in the other thread I think it a ) depends on the individual's definition of what an A list star is and b ) whether you're in the US or in the UK/Europe where a lot of these actors/actresses are much better known - Mark Addy, Julian Glover, James Cosmo, Peter Vaughan, Jerome Flynn, Clive Mantel, Ian McElhinney (for example) - are all much better known in the UK/Europe.

I think you could ask most people on the street if they'd heard of Sean Bean and the majority would say yes so I agree with the idea of him being the "name" they used to kick start interest in Game of Thrones outside of the fantasy/Martin fan world.

ETA: To reply to the OP, I don't think there's necessarily a need to replace Sean Bean with another big name actor, I'd rather see the part go to someone whose capable of bringing the character to life than to a "famous" name.

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I never thought they should have any big name actors in these role. Having no-names allows you to get into that world with them. They are new & fresh to you (Americans, anyway) & so they look like they belong to that world, like it's a different dimension & not just a movie where theyre actors who exist outside of it in other roles.

I did not like most of the casting upon watching the premiere, but most of them have grown on me rapidly, & their skills have grown as the series progressed.

I especially didnt like Robb, Jon or Theon...they looked too much alike, for one thing. But 2 out of 3 went on to not only be decent in their roles, but I think outstanding.

So much of the casting is even better than I conceived, reading the books. Lyssa Arryen & her son are magnificent in their roles. Bronn is beyond what I imagined in so many ways, but so wonderful. Jorah, too... it seems like these actors just sprang up born to play these roles. I feel like these 'unknown' actors are absolute gems that I got to uncover.

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I think the DVD sales of the series will be a strong indicator of the lasting power the series might have. So much money is made these days through DVD sales, and I know some people who weren't willing or able to pay for a HBO subscription, but are planning on buying the DVDs soon as they come out. Plus, the series has sold well and done extremely well in the overseas market, which while it won't save the show if it tanks in the U.S., it will be a way to the defray the costs that Carnivale (and possibly Rome?) didn't have.

You're right. I think a lot of people don't realize how difficult it is for premium cable channels like HBO and Showtime to calculate the costs and revenue of their shows. Since HBO doesn't advertise, the money comes in from subscriptions and DVD sales. If a big-name actor is added to the cast, he or she needs to be able to draw DVD viewers.

For fans of the books, this cost-benefit issue is manifest in the fact that the show only has ten episodes. Adding two, four, or eight more to the season likely wouldn't let them charge more for the DVD, nor would they draw additional advertising revenue.

Unfortunately, I don't think Game of Thrones will make it past three or four seasons because of these cost considerations, unless it becomes a lucrative DVD series for HBO.

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Given the collapse of the DVD/Blue Ray sales market, GOT might not be financially viable for the long term unless they can build a broader audience - essentially beating True Blood numbers. Otherwise HBO will continue to run the show at a loss. HBO generally has been pretty smart about letting a show build an audience over a couple of seasons, however if the 2nd season has audience numbers similiar to the first, I'd be suprised if HBO elected to continue.

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