[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] Daenerys 3 - Spoilers for ADWD

[Piepai]

I'm just gonna put it out here that I believe the thirteen ships Xaro leaves in Mereen might carry disease.

I got that vibe as soon as I read somewhere that disease will feature in ADWD, uknow?

I'd say the ship that they weren't going to use; the one that Selmy said was no good would be carrying some sort of plague. It'd mean that if she accepted the ships then she wouldn't use that one and would go to Westeros and if she refuses his offer then she'll stay in Mereen and get plagued.

[Dimnara]

"The pale mare" in the prophecy is Dany. I think the Dothraki called her that. (in the prophecy of the Old Khaleesis?)

[Daeron Targaryen]

Dimnara, that's impossible. Dany can't come to herself (as the prophecy implies), so the pale mare must be someone else that arrives in Meeren. I think it's Aurane Waters as the Velaryon simbol is a silver seahorse.

[Dimnara]

Dimnara, that's impossible. Dany can't come to herself (as the prophecy implies), so the pale mare must be someone else that arrives in Meeren. I think it's Aurane Waters as the Velaryon simbol is a silver seahorse.

But the prophecy reads: "First comes the pale mare, then others will follow [...]" Couldn't it be that Dany comes first to some place (Asshai) and then the others are following her?

Velaryon has a silver seahorse symbol, thats true enough, but hes male, why should he be called a "mare"? Furthermore I think he sailed much too late to be the first to come. And never forget the prophecy of the Dosh Khaleen from Vaes Dothrak. Im pretty sure that they were calling Dany the "pale mare". (because for her -in the sight of the Dothraki- strange pale hair)

I think Aurane Waters is the Mummers Dragon. Even Cercei first thought that he looked a bit like Rhaegar.

[Daeron Targaryen]

"First comes the pale mare, then others will follow [...]" Couldn't it be that Dany comes first to some place (Asshai) and then the others are following her?

Uhm, that's a new theory and a very interesting one! Yes, that way (from the perspective of Quaithe) it would work.

However it seems that much of the action will revolve around Mereen, as implied by the problems Martin is facing in solving the Mereenese Knot, whatever that is. And it seems that that part is quite late in the book, so I believe that it is unlikely that anyone is going to Asshai. Also, in an email Martin said that we would see Asshai only in "flashback and memories, if at all", but he may have changed his mind.

[Dimnara]

Ah, too bad, I would have loved to see Asshai.

Nevertheless, prophecies are speaking of the future, so I think it could still be possible that all protagonists of the prophecy meet in Meeren: Quaithe quoted the whole text to Dany although the part of Dany being here is already fulfilled.

[Daeron Targaryen]

Well, Marwyn has been there, perhaps he will tell Dany of Asshai.

[feardeathbywater]

I apologize if this post comes out a bit screwy. It's my first, and I don't have the hang of it.

I can't help thinking that the Perfumed Seneschal may not refer to a person, but rather to the Isle of Cedars in the Gulf of Grief. On the map (assuming this is the Isle of Cedars mentioned by George Martin) it looks as though it dominates the gulf, dividing Slavers' Bay from the rest, with a strait between it and the eastern mainland. This fits the seneschal definition, at least figuratively: anyone who held the island and had a decent seaborne fighting force could dominate the whole region (which makes me wonder if it was something like the Sicily of the Valyria/Ghis Punic War(s)); not to mention the means to build lots more ships if the name still means anything. Oh, and cedar is aromatic, right up there with sandalwood. Depending on on how narrow that strait is, it would be an excellent choke point if someone wanted to plan a naval ambush and/or kidnapping. Someone with fast ships and plenty of iron in them. Even if you were only making for the opposite side of the gulf and the Lands of Long Summer, you might find yourself sailing past the island. I recall somewhere George promised that part of ADWD would take place on the island. Perhaps when Dany's new ships turn out to be useless or sabotaged once she's well out to sea?

Certainly something to fear, then. Otherwise, I imagine the seneschal is someone from the estates around Meereen, or possibly the current ruler in Yunkai.

I agree with other people's guesses for the most part. The Mummer's Dragon might be someone Varys bought or sponsored (gold pieces often referred to as "Dragons" from their imprint in Westeros) rather than a person associated with a dragon sigil.

[Lady Winter Rose]

Quaithe tells Dany "The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare. After her will come the others [no caps]. Crow and kraken, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Remember the undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

Maybe crow is Three-eyed-crow.

Pale mare? Someone on this forum tell about Nordic mythology, that pale mare could refered on Melisandre.

Mummer's dragon? Well, Aurane Waters go to Dany, and Jamie think that he is 17, rather than 21, which is real age for Aegon, the Rhaeger's son.

perfumed seneschal is probably Marwyn, because he is not real seneschal in heart

The theory of Three-eyed-crow is most convincing, and maybe Waters theory

[Jon Blackfyre]

"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare. After her will come the others [no caps]. Crow and kraken, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Remember the undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

To me this breaks down as the following.

The Pale Mare = Dany, first to come to Mereen, which is where the others will come after.

Crow and Kraken = ??? and Victarion Greyjoy. I still haven't figured out who the crow might be... not Euron, because he is sending his brother Vic, who is the Kraken. Or maybe it is Euron, and the Crow and Kraken represent Vic coming to Dany at Euron's behest.

Lion and Griffin = Tyrion and Young/Old Griff, aka Jon Connington and his "son"

Sun's Son and Mummer's Dragon = Quentyn Martell and either Aurane Waters, aka "Aegon Targaryen" which I don't believe he is, or somebody from the Golden Company that may be a Blackfyre or Bittersteel decendant.

Perfumed Seneschal = Illyrio most likely in my mind.

[Liliedhe]

Well, the Pale Mare is a difficult thing. The pale horse has significant connotations for us, but there’s the question if those hold up in Westeros, too. Assuming they do, and a pale horse is bearing death, then it could be either Dany – who certainly left a trail of corpses behind her – or, if this is about people coming TO Dany, it might not be a person at all. Going by the hint that plague will play an important role in this book, the pale mare might be plague. It’s the black spider in some European stories, and pestilence is one of the horsemen of the Apocalypse. Other than that, if we think that Pale mare is riddled in the same way as the others, who are symbolized by house signs, then we need to ask if there is a house that has a horse as sign, and if we can come up with a woman from such a house who will go to Dany.

Houses with horses as their sign, I remember Ryswell (with an especially spooky one) and Bracken, but they are not pale. Now, if we assume that either someone has this pale horse as personal arms (like a bastard with reversed colors)… Well, than it can be anyone. Bittersteel had the Bracken horse with dragonwings, so it might be a female descendant of his, maybe someone who is an albino? Ryswell, I just can’t see any connection with.

Crow and Kraken: Well, the Kraken is Vic, that’s easy. The Crow might be Euron, or it might be someone from the Night’s Watch. I’d favour Euron here. The Watch MIGHT eventually send someone to Dany, but not at this point. Not early enough that the person can be there before Vic. Euron on the other hand sent Vic and thus is metaphorically with him, although Vic has his own agenda, too.

Lion and Griffin: Tyrion, and Griff – who might be a relation to Jon Connington, yes.

The Sun’s Son and the mummer’s dragon: Quentyn, clearly. And – kind of reversing the argument – Marwyn. He fancies himself a mage, but judging by the mages we saw in Dany’s journeys, he’s no more a mage than a mummer’s dragon is a dragon. We know Marwyn is going to her, so he ought to be mentioned in this prophecy and this is the only spot we can put him, I think. ^^ One could also make an argument for Marwyn being the crow, though. He gets there on word of Sam and Maester Aemon, who are crows. So, he might be a crow by association. That would leave the mummer’s dragon open to be a fake Targaryen.

And the perfumed seneschal? That is Varys. He has always been described as wearing perfume. And he must also be travelling in that direction, I think.

Although I find the argument of the seneschal being that Island also quite convincing.

[feardeathbywater]

If the perfumed Seneschal is not the Island, I go with it being someone from the Citadel. They have the only seneschal I remember hearing about in the books, and if whay Marwyn says is true then he is probably someone for her to be wary of.

Hmmmm, Crow. Sam was heading in her direction, but his objective was always Oldtown. There's always the possibility that it's a messenger from the Greenseer (Three-Eyed Crow), or someone dispatched from the Eastwatch either by John or Stannis asking for help (the big fight may have started by the end of ADWD).

The Pale Mare is by far the most difficult. Dany herself, one of the Crones (or their messenger), a Bittersteel Targaryen (remote possibility)....someone associated with the moon, perhaps? Are any houses associated with a moon sigil? Moonsingers, maybe? A disease? Death? Arya?

The fact that the Golden Company is heading east for some unknown reason has to be dealt with, but so far they don't seem to correspond to any part of Quaithe's message.

[extraho rex rgis]

"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare. After her will come the others [no caps]. Crow and kraken, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Remember the undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

The Pale Mare = A “Pale Mare” in art and is a phantom that guides between the living world and the world of the dead which leads me to believe it is undead Cat.

Crow and Kraken = Euron and Damphair, so sure but probably so wrong.

Lion and Griffin = Tyrion and Young/Old Griff, aka Jon Connington and his "son" or maybe the blackfish because in medieval lore "Griffins" not only mated for life, but also, if either partner died, then the other would continue throughout the rest of its life alone, never to search for a new mate, and we don’t know why he never married.

Sun's Son and Mummer's Dragon = Doran Martell, or at least a Martell. The mummers dragon, I think is probably Varys, he claimed to have been a mummer and certainly appears to be a Targaryen supporter.

Perfumed Seneschal = It may be Marwyn or another maester sent after him/Dany

It doesn’t say they will all be supporters just that they shall come

[Lady Winter Rose]

"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare. After her will come the others [no caps]. Crow and kraken, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Remember the undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

[feardeathbywater]

The glass candles are burning.

Who besides Marwyn has one? If more than one is burning, what is that person watching? More importantly, can Alleras and company continue using Marwyn's now that he's on a cruise?

[Stark Swordsman]

Soon comes the pale mare. After her will come the others [no caps]. Crow and kraken, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Remember the undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal

Pale Mare seems like Dany (and it's interesting that she isn't a dragon).

Crow could be night watch (but who?), Euron (but he's elsewhere), the three-eyed crow (same problems as NW), or anyone trying to capitalize on war and death (which there is no shortage of).

Kraken is Greyjoy who we know is coming.

Lion is Tyrion.

Griffin should be Connington.

Sun's son should be Martell, but could be a grown son of Drogo's too (he was her sun and stars, and likely quite prolific).

Mummer's dragon could be a fake Aegon, Targ bastard descendant, or someone warging into her dragon (that would make it a puppet).

Perfumed seneschal seems like it could be Marwyn, but Varys or Littlefinger wouldn't surprise me either.

[jurble]

Pale mare = Dany? What how can Dany be a visitor to Dany? Whoever it is is coming first, no idea who though. Crow and Kraken refers, I think, to the fact that Victarion represents both himself (Kraken) and his brother (Crow.) Lion and Griffin is Tyrion and Connington. Sun's Son is definitely Quentyn. Mummer's Dragon, I think, will be the Golden Company. Perhaps, the Blackfyre/Bittersteel will show up with the King of Mummer's hiding in his troupe. Who knows. Pale Mare might also be Bittersteel's descendants, iunno.

[CryFenril]

Varys has a gift for costuming, keep in mind. Since he has had to flee the "senseless savage west", it makes sense he'll wind up somewhere in Dany's vicinity. Why not pose as a seneschal?

[Schlafmohn]

The glass candles/obsidian are burning because there are dragons in the world again.

In the epilogue of FfC Marvyn tells Sam that the citadel will waste no time to send someone to Dany when they'll find out (or already found out) about the dragons. Surely to kill them again , like they did the last time.

He also said that the citadel is not what it used to be. Every other week there is a new seneshal because nobody wants to take the job. This could very well mean that someone else has been the true head for a while. Perhaps Varys (--> perfumed seneshal)....but I would not understand why he would want and try to kill the dragons. It seems like he worked hard with Illyrio to bring Dany back...so this doesn't make sense....(at the moment , at least) although I think he hates magic..no?

So my guess for the perfumed seneshal would be the actual head of the citadel, whoever that might be. Dany has to be wary of him, because he hates dragons and magic.

[FatCatOberyn]

I think that the Kraken is Victarion and the Crow is Euron. In fact, I think he was referred to as a crow once before in a prophecy (the old woman in the Arya chapter - a faceless man on a bridge, with a crow on his shoulder).