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Jon Targaryen

[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] Daenerys 3 - Spoilers for ADWD

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Here are my thoughts:

'glass candles are burning' - Magic is starting to come back, and all sort of things considering it will start to happen. Magic was lost hundreds of years ago, so there is little chance we will se someone who is D&D 20th level Mage.

'Soon comes the pale mare' - This is Dany's first guest to come. It could be some descendant, of Bittersteel, but i don't think that is very likley. I think it will be another Khaleesi that will offer some sort of partnership to Dany. Why is it refered as 'pale' and 'mare' is a long shot. Pale might mean that he is an albino, or something like that, and Mare - a woman.

Oh BTW Bittersteel's arms are 'A red stallion with black wings snorting flame on gold ' - from citadel

'after her others will come' - Why was this said. It defenitley means that Pale mare is first to come, and it might mean that others won't come that soon. Maybe we will meet some of them in the books after ADWD

the rest ar three pairs. I think that they will be coming like that, in pairs.

'Crow and Kraken' - This is a longshot for me. Kraken is definetly Greyjoy, Victarion IMO. Crow might Be euron, Black Brother, or someone completly different.

'Lion and Griffin' - Tyrion and Young Griff. I'd like to add that Lion might be Tyrek or Gerion. They are also somewhere missing. In Tyrion's ADWD spoiler chapters we see that there are wery big chances that Tyrion and Griff will be traveling together.

'Sun's son and Mummer's Dragon' - Quentin and Targaryen. Quentin will defenitly appear. There high probability that he will be POV, what was discussed in other subforums. He will have at least one chapter, which will take place in one of the free cities, IMO. In so spoke Martin section at Citadel I read that we will have new guy who will be called King of the Mummers. I think that this guy will have someone that he will claim is a Targaryen. All the stuff that we had from all sort of mummers so far were fake and lies mostly. Mummers were manipulative (Varys) and bloody (Vargo Hoath) so far, but that dosen't mean that this one is just like that. He might claim that his 'dragon' is Aegon, but it dosen't have to be the case. I think that Dany would welcome any Targ.

'remember the House of undying' and 'Beware of the perfumed senescal' - This two things are connected IMO. Parfumed senescal IMO will be some guy (in Mereen probably) that Dany is working with closley. I don't think it is Varys or Ilyrio or Xaro. This 'beware' word in 2nd sentence gives me the assumption that dany will be betrayed by her so called ally, and in the House od Undying it was said that she will be betrayed three times. She thinks those three times have already happened, but I don't think this is the case.

Once for Blood - Miri maz dur

Once for Gold - Perfumed senescal

Once for Love - long shot

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Guest Other-in-law
We also know (from ACoK) that the Warlocks in Qarth are burning glass candles. Of course, we had no idea what this meant until AFfC.

Hah, I figured it out back at the old board.

What is unclear are the identities of the Pale Mare, the Crow, the Mummer's Dragon, and the perfumed Seneschal...the others are settled.

Pale Mare: Pale could refer to physical skin colour (Qartheen), ordinary heraldic colour, or possibly King's Guard (ala Alyn Connington, the Pale griffith). I tend to favour an as yet unknown Qartheen women, but ymmv. The mare could refer to a Dothraki women or someone who's blazon is a mare. None of the KG have any horsey blazons that I know of, so someone with an actual heraldic white mare or a half Qartheen/half Dothraki women seem likeliest to me.

Mummer's Dragon: It seems unlikely that Stannis could afford to abandon his interests in the North for the sake of a perilous voyage to Slaver's Bay on a nonexistant ship (he has no fleet since Salla has abandoned him). However, in the House of the Undying, the Slayer of Lies vision links the blue-eyed shadowless King (Stannis), and the stone-beast breathing shadow fire (which seems connected to the buildup for Mel's promises to wake dragons from stone for Stannis), with the Mummer's Dragon. It would seem odd if two of the three lies she must slay are related to Stannis, but the third one isn't.

The possibility of some false Aegon rising in the Free Cities somewhere is tantalising, but I feel Stannis should get either all three of the lies, or only one. That he is not Azor Ahai reborn would be covered by the first lie (with the glowing red sword), but while Stannis arguably is a Targaryen (he's a legitimate descendant of Aegon IV, and the next living heir after Dany as far as we know, and scions of lesser houses changing their names on inheriting higher titles seems to be the norm in Westeros) but he never actually claims to be a Targ....we only learn who his great grandfather is from Aemon, not from Stannis himself.

That leaves me with the choice of either: A) Stannis gets two out of three lies, or B) the Stone Beast is not some shadowmancy of Mel's (unlikely), or C) Stannis really is the Mummer's Dragon, and will travel to Slaver's Bay. I don't care for any of them (being both a Mummer's Dragon and false AA seem redundant), but the two out of three seems least objectionable, and leaves the door open for any number of false Aegon candidates. Young Griff would be redundant, and Aurane may be the wrong age, so it's wide open.

I have no preferences for the Seneschal or the Crow as yet.

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Mummer's Dragon: It seems unlikely that Stannis could afford to abandon his interests in the North for the sake of a perilous voyage to Slaver's Bay on a nonexistant ship (he has no fleet since Salla has abandoned him). However, in the House of the Undying, the Slayer of Lies vision links the blue-eyed shadowless King (Stannis), and the stone-beast breathing shadow fire (which seems connected to the buildup for Mel's promises to wake dragons from stone for Stannis), with the Mummer's Dragon. It would seem odd if two of the three lies she must slay are related to Stannis, but the third one isn't.

The possibility of some false Aegon rising in the Free Cities somewhere is tantalising, but I feel Stannis should get either all three of the lies, or only one. That he is not Azor Ahai reborn would be covered by the first lie (with the glowing red sword), but while Stannis arguably is a Targaryen (he's a legitimate descendant of Aegon IV, and the next living heir after Dany as far as we know, and scions of lesser houses changing their names on inheriting higher titles seems to be the norm in Westeros) but he never actually claims to be a Targ....we only learn who his great grandfather is from Aemon, not from Stannis himself.

That leaves me with the choice of either: A) Stannis gets two out of three lies, or B) the Stone Beast is not some shadowmancy of Mel's (unlikely), or C) Stannis really is the Mummer's Dragon, and will travel to Slaver's Bay. I don't care for any of them (being both a Mummer's Dragon and false AA seem redundant), but the two out of three seems least objectionable, and leaves the door open for any number of false Aegon candidates. Young Griff would be redundant, and Aurane may be the wrong age, so it's wide open.

Stannis gets one lie. Others are Cloth Dragon and Stone Beast.

Stannis is going to attack Deepwood Mote. He has no reasons to go to Dany. After all, I think he dosen't even know Dany exists.

Stannis is as much Dragon as Dany is Martell. Blood is not always that important. He is Baratheon, by his father's line, and that is it. We do know that Baratheons have bloodline with Targs, but that dosen't mean they are Dragons. True Dragons, for me, always had Blond Hair and Lylac Eyes, and I think this is George's oppinion too. In THK Baelor Died. I don't think it is coincidence that Baelor was never king, because he had Martell look.

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Guest Other-in-law

Who do you think will be responsible for the stone beast then, if not Melisandre acting on behalf of Stannis?

Incidentally, the cloth dragon could refer to yet another attempt to bring back dragons. Alester Florent revealed that Aegon IV tried this method (whatever that entailed) and that it failed like all the others.

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I agree that the 'crow' prophesized will be either Euron or a Night's Watch man. Victarion is definitely going to Dany, but maybe Euron secretly comes along...? He would be leaving behind his kingdom... which may be risky, but I could see him being that deceptive. I was thinking about the rumoured Faceless Man that Euron may have in his company. I was thinking he could leave a Faceless Euron behind to rule the ironborn, but I don't know if I buy that.

The Night's Watch crow would either be Samwell (who is the closest to Dany), or someone Jon sends to Dany after Sam writes him about Aemon's thoughts concerning Dany (if Sam risks putting that in a letter). One person I could see going would be Aliser Thorne, he had been loyal to the Targaryens, and I think he could be trusted and take pride in being the dignitary from the Night's Watch to Dany. Just some thoughts.

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Ser Alliser would be a dangerous pick, I think. If Jon does send someone - and I'm leaning against the idea, myself - he'll want to make sure Stannis and Melissandre don't find out. ("Why are you sending an emissary to that upstart when I'm the rightful king and the prince who was promised?!?") Alliser may have fought on the Targaryen side in King Robert's War, but he doesn't have anything to gain by going to Dany. At best he's still going to be a member of the Night's Watch (unless he deserts in the Free Cities). If he tattles to Stannis and Mel he has a chance to get rid of Jon. Also, he didn't seem to take much pride in being the Night's Watch emissary to King's Landing, though that may have had something to do with Tyrion being acting Hand at the time.

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Ser Alliser would be a dangerous pick, I think. Also, he didn't seem to take much pride in being the Night's Watch emissary to King's Landing, though that may have had something to do with Tyrion being acting Hand at the time.

That would be ironic wouldn't it. He gets pick to go to King's Landing because the Old Bear thought he would be well recieved by his old friends there- but when he arrives his old friends are gone, and instead Tyrion is there to humilate him.

So then if he gets sent to Dany because it is thought Dany will listen to a man who was loyal to her... and then Tyrion is there ahead of him- again! :rofl:

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Having Thorne encounter Tyrion again in Meereen would be hilarious: a nice on-running joke... The look on Thorne's face would be priceless...

(I was reminded of a scene similar to this when Samwell finally got to Oldtown and was then made to wait in the 'waiting room'... love how Sam said something to the effect of "Please, I've come all the way from the Wall...")

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Here are some additions made by Jaehaerys from way back:

SUMMARY ADDITIONS (in order as given in chapter, my comments are in italics):

When Dany is bathing, she thinks if she was a fish she could swim to Westeros. She would not need Xaros then and wonders how many 13 ships could hold. It took 3 ships to carry her before she acquired 8,000 Unsullied, 1,000 sellswords and their horses, and ten of thousands of freemen. She whispers Drogon, and for a moment almost can see him “sweeping across the sky, his black wings swallowing the stars.†(Aside: I think the fish wishing is foreshadowing of some sort of Dany-Greyjoy alliance before it turns sour when Euron’s nature is revealed. I also think it is no coincidence that cities are shown as stars on Xaro’s map of the area, {see below}. I think Drogon is going to destroy whole cities before the end.)

When Quaithe appears, Quaithe’s hooded robe brushes the grass. Dany pinches her own ear to make sure she isn’t dreaming like she thought she did that night on Balerion. Quaithe says Dany did not dream her then or now, that Dany called her. Dany asks how she got past Dany’s guards. Quaithe says she came another way, that her guards never say her. Dany says they will kill her if she calls out. Quaithe says that they will swear no one is here. Dany asks he if she is here. Quaithe says no. (Aside: Quaithe’s comment about calling her is going to make me recheck ACOK where we see her twice and ASOS where she appears once to see if Dany is thinking about the same subject. From this passage we can tell that she is able to move the grass in Dany’s garden.)

When Dany holds court, she finds her ebon bench piled high with satin pillows. She knows it is Barristan’s doing; she thinks it was only a jape, that he is too literal but sits on them anyway.

After Ghael is dragged off, Reznak brings up the guilds. The stonemasons and bricklayers are angry at Dany. Former slaves are stealing work from journeymen and masters alike by doing the work for cheaper. The freemen are also claiming the above titles. Dany says if she forbids them from working she will soon have the other guilds upset. However, she does decrees that they cannot call themselves journeymen and masters but that the guild must allow freemen in if they are skilled.

Hizdahr than seeks an audience. This is the seventh time, and says that since Dany has seven gods he hope she will be persuaded. He has cut his hair short, but not shaved his pate and has brought seven gladiators with him. They are: Khrazz, a woman named Barsena Blackhair, Camarron of the Count, Goghor the Giant, the Spotted Cat, Fearless Ithoke, and Belaquo Bonebreaker. They come to ask for the fighting pits to be reopened, it is revealed that Hizdahr has offered any winners half of what he collects at the gates. Dany asks what the losing gladiators will receive. Barsena says that their names will be graven on the Gates of Fate amongst the other valiant fallen. She then says: “All men must die, and women too…but not all will be remembered.†(This is the full quote. Perhaps Valar dohaeris means ‘All men must be remembered’?)

Dany calls a war council in the Great Pyramid’s armory to discuss sending help to Astapor. Her council consists of: Skahaz the Shavepate, Grey Worm and his seconds Callando and Hero, Moragy of the Mother’s Men, Mollono Yos Dob of the Stalwart Shields, Symon Stripeback (named for his scarred back from the whippings in Astapor) of the Free Brothers and Rommo, a wizened jaqqa rhan to speak for the Dorthraki.

When Barristan and Groleo return from inspecting the ships Barristan appears “as grave as everâ€. Groleo had been miserable and had been named lord admiral as a consolation after Dany broke up his 3 ships. He was ecstatic at Xaros’ offer. He reports that the Pureborn Princess is the one with the worm-eaten hull. The Narraqqa needs a new rudder and lines. The Branded Lizard has some worn oars. The rowers are slaves chained to their oars but Groleo thinks once freed they will row for a honest oarsman’s wage. (Aside: Makes me wonder how many assassins and miscreants Xaros has hidden in these oarsmen. Once freed of their chains, we’ll see another attempt on Dany’s life.)

When the war council hears of Xaros offer, Dany says they can come with her to Westeros. Symon Stripbeack says how, that 13 ships is not enough. Rommo says the Dorthraki would ride, and Grey Worm says the unsullied could march along the shore. The Shavepate says that would be fine until the ruins of Bhorash. Beyond that, the ships needs must turn south past Tolos and the Isle of Cedars to sail around Valyria. The foot would have to follow the old dragon road to Mantarys. The Shavepate says “Both ways are terrible. May would die.†Mollono says that the men of Mantary are sorcerers and cannibals.

Xaro’s bejeweled nose has emeralds, amethysts and black diamonds. (Makes me wonder if those are purple amethysts from Asshai?)

The tapestry map covers half of the audience chamber and takes four men to lift. Cites are shown as stars in gold or silver thread. Qarth is at the map’s center “equidistant between Valyria and Asshaiâ€. The 3 cites of slaver’s bay are in silver thread.

Xaros went to the Pureborn to beg for Dany’s life. Egon Emeros the Exquisite states that she is too foolish to live. When Xaro is warning her that Dany’s dragons are dangerous he says: “Grown, they are death and devastation, a flaming sword above the word.†(IMO, more proof that the dragons are Lightbringer reforged.)

Long red streamers fly from the masts of the 13 ships Xaro leaves behind.

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I just considered soomething; lets say Ashara really did flee into exile with baby Aegon but that child died... After half a dozen or so events in which Ashara continues to live because of Lord Jon Conningtons valor, Ashara and Connington fall deeply in love. We dont have a description of Connington characteristics, but we do know the Daynes have the Targaryen look (which leads me to believe that the Daynes are the descendants of the last hero, and Dawn "was" lightbringer in days past but no longer) and its quite possible the product of Connington and Ashara could look very Targish...

- a 2nd thought has occured to me and that is : in the Tyrion chapter we learn of Griff and 'Young' Griff, with no mention of "younger Griffs", I wonder how GRRM's readers would take it if he kills Ashara off (in child birth) off screen and a decade after the tale begins in a GOT

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I just thought of something. Maybe this Mummer's Dragon is in fact Bellegre Othelys, aka the black pearl (Cat of the canals,pg512,US). It is said she is descendant from Westeros prince (possibly Aerion Brightflame)

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I just thought of something. Maybe this Mummer's Dragon is in fact Bellegre Othelys, aka the black pearl (Cat of the canals,pg512,US). It is said she is descendant from Westeros prince (possibly Aerion Brightflame)

Ha, when I read "mummers dragon" I'd always assumed it would be a person of Valyrian descent trying to pass themselves off as a Targaryen, can you imagine how "straight forward" it would be if Bellegre Othelys is either the great grand daughter of Aerion and an actress of if she has a son whose a skilled warrior in the mold of Florian... I hadn't paused to consider that there might be a boy descendant of Aerion whose either Bellegre's brother or son

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The Dayne's don't have the "Targaryen look". Some of them just have purple eyes.

And the pale almost silver blonde hair (Ned Dayne has purple eyes AND the pale blonde hair)

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Wouldn't it be that the targ has the dayne look, Daynes been in westeros far longer than the targs. And do we have any idea how old the targ family is? it has to be atleast 3-400 years old I guess and Daynes are like 2000 ++.

so settle it by saying that they have valyrian looks :P

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Wouldn't it be that the targ has the dayne look, Daynes been in westeros far longer than the targs. And do we have any idea how old the targ family is? it has to be atleast 3-400 years old I guess and Daynes are like 2000 ++.

so settle it by saying that they have valyrian looks :P

well the Daynes are said to be a house going back 10,000 years (although I got that from a posted quote of Gerold Dayne - I didnt look it up), and yes the Daynes have inhabited westeros far longer than the Targaryens. I think placing the Targaryen's at about 3,000 years could be accurate, I also think if the Dayne's are truly a house thats been around for 10,000 years it places Dawn as what remains of Lightbringer the sword of Azor Ahai because wasnt the long night 10,000 years ago?

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Could the perfumed seneschal be Daario? Wasn't he a representative of a sellsword company? Couldn't that be a seneschal? Some of the others are rather obvious.

I don't know who the pale mare will be and the crow isn't clear to me either. The only thing I know that Marvin is going to visit Dany so he has to be one of those mentioned. Maybe he is the crow?

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I don't know who the pale mare will be and the crow isn't clear to me either. The only thing I know that Marvin is going to visit Dany so he has to be one of those mentioned. Maybe he is the crow?

- "The Pale Mare" - could be a descendant of Bittersteel who currently commands the Golden Company

- You mean "Marwyn the Mage"?

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- "The Pale Mare" - could be a descendant of Bittersteel who currently commands the Golden Company

- You mean "Marwyn the Mage"?

Yup, I mean Marwyn the Mage. We know he is on the way to visit Dany. So he has to be one of the mentioned animals.

What about the Daario thought?

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