Lann_Boys'Girl Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 I think Reznak. Someone posted in a different thread that he was a Seneschal who smelled as though he bathed in perfume. I feel like that last line before Quaithe vanishes was separate from the prophecy itself, and just a line of advice for the RIGHT NOW. Like, oh man my time is running out, I'll give her advice for the present as fast as I can. It's entirely possible that soon, Reznak mo Reznak will try to do something harmful to Dany, and she, equipped with this knowledge, will see through it. But my initial thought upon seeing the prophecy was, indeed, Varys, though now I think Reznak (questionable loyalty, and already present) is a better candidate than Varys (has done nothing but help Dany up to now, and probably won't meet her for a long time). Which brings up an interesting question in my mind - what are Quaithe's motives? Why is she so keen on helping Dany? Is she another person who knows that the Real Battle will be with the Others, and humanity's strongest candidate should get as much help as possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears of Lys Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Which brings up an interesting question in my mind - what are Quaithe's motives? Why is she so keen on helping Dany? Is she another person who knows that the Real Battle will be with the Others, and humanity's strongest candidate should get as much help as possible? I haven't seen too many posts about Quaithe, yet she's very mysterious. If there's any old threads about her, I haven't found them yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anya, Vengeance Demon Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Actually, I like Varys as a candidate; his loyalty to the Targaryens is not all that it seems, and he too operates as something of a steward ('managing' Ser Jorah and his flock of little birds, sending her Tyrion and Barristan). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainFireBob Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I dislike Reznak- it'd seem hackneyed that it was so straightforward/obvious. Now, Littlefinger with his minty breath, that'd be nice. Martin normally does well with prophecy forehadowing- I quite liked the dwarves ravishing the prone woman, or the wolf-headed feast of corpses. Nice and indirect. I mean, if it's Reznak, how does that bite off your c**k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lann_Boys'Girl Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 That's my point. The last one could have not been a PROPHECY, given that the others use symbolic words. "Beware the perfumed Seneschal" is just a direct piece of advice from Quaithe. I highly doubt that somewhere in Asshai they found a tablet on which was scrawled, Beware the perfumed Seneschal. Cheers! Lann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anya, Vengeance Demon Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 That's my point. The last one could have not been a PROPHECY, given that the others use symbolic words. Well, maybe. Or maybe the perfumed seneschal was _meant_ symbolically, not literally. Honestly, I'm not sure it's clear either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezeh Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 See, I'm not sure the "perfumed seneschal" has to be coming to Dany. Quaithe says that some people are coming (pale mare, crow, kraken, etc.), but she just says beware the perfumed seneschal. That’s right but it seems more likely that Quaithe warning was about somebody close to Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lann Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 fun reading y'all! i like all the suggestions. i finally resigned myself to reading the spoilers and it's fun to have new stuff to chew on... so the remaining questionable parts of the prophecy: 1. pale mare 2. crow 3. mummer's dragon 4. perfumed seneschal i agreed with a post from the first page that suggested that Quaithe is repeating an old prophecy and that the pale mare is dany. makes sense, which would mean that the whole prophecy is aimed at Asshai,or the free cities. i'm not taking a side. i will assert though my utter bafflement at the crow. i agree with whoever said that these people will be coming in pairs especially since tyrion is traveling with a griffin. so what crow could get there at the same time as Vic? the benjen suggestion was tittilatiing but, i think he's coldhands so he's out in my book. i guess it will be a surprise? mummer's dragon - my guess is a fake aegon. maybe this is why GRRM won't answer the alive/dead question about him. someone's going to show up and pretend to be aegon and if we all knew he was already dead then it wouldn't be very suspenseful. perfumed seneschal - i'm a little confused as to why everyone thinks this is varys. i mean i agree that he is a perfect candidate, but it seemed like everyone thinks he's going to turn on dany because he hates magic, so he's going to kill her dragons. but wouldn't varys know by now that she has dragons, and isn't he still working for her, i.e. he got tyrion to illyrio and illyrio is getting tyrion to dany. moreover, if he's a targ loyalist, wouldn't that be stupid position if he hates magic and thus dragons? that's my biggest beef with this thread so far...if varys hates magic (which apparently = dragons) why would he still be helping dany? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezeh Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 There is no necessary for any prophesy since various people are able to see present and future in flames. Quaithe words are obviously reference to people who going to visit any in ADWD so in order to identify them we should compare Quaithe list with list of people who we know are going to Dany. O.k. Quaithe – pale mare (?), crow (?) and kraken (Victarion), griffon (Connington) and lion (Tyrion), sun's son (Quentin) and the mummer's dragon (?). Who is coming – Golden company (?), Grif (griffon), Tyrion (lion), Quentin (sun’s son), Marwynn (?), young Grif (?) – the question if he mentioned by Quaithe. If we accept that young Grif is important enough to be mentioned then the only possible links are: Pale mare – Golden Company (or somebody from it) Crow – Marwynn Mummer’s dragon – young Grif? If not – mummers dragon remains a mystery the other two are the only possibility since GC and Marwynn are surely worth mentioning by Quaithe. Mind Golden Company for sure heading to Dany and it’s important so Quaithe should mention it. We also know that they wil likely come before others. Marwynn is also important and should be mentioned so he should be “the crowâ€. Why he is called so? A question but pairing with kraken is right since he started approximately the same tome as Victarion so we should expect their arrival (not nessesary together) close in time too. So the real mystery are only mummer's dragon (why he mentioned in pair with sun’s son) and perfumed seneschal since he is not necessary coming – he could be already near Dany or in any other location as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil-galad Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 So the real mystery are only mummer's dragon (why he mentioned in pair with sun’s son) and perfumed seneschal since he is not necessary coming – he could be already near Dany or in any other location as well. The mummer's dragon could be one of the descendants of the bastards of Aegon the Unworthy, aka Bleackfyr or Bittersteel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezeh Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 The mummer's dragon could be one of the descendants of the bastards of Aegon the Unworthy, aka Bleackfyr or Bittersteel. It was mentioned that Selmy killed the last of Blackfyre pretenders. Bittersteel – yes maybe thought there were no indication that Bittersteel considered himself dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Meereense Knot Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Bittersteel may not of, but perhaps it's something that his descendents are proud of. One could still consider them to be a sort of poor man's Targ. They're like the real thing, but no true substitute. Thus the mummer's dragon imagery. Or it could be somebody else completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil-galad Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 It was mentioned that Selmy killed the last of Blackfyre pretenders. Bittersteel – yes maybe thought there were no indication that Bittersteel considered himself dragon. In case of Bleakfyre I think it is quite hard to extinguish a family-line to the last one. Don't know if even Varys was so well informed (if he had the job during that time period) guessing that the Bleackfyres had a well known reason to hide their identity (well until they had again the power to claim something as theirs). Yet I don't say it's impossible, I doubt it, but it's my humble opinion. Yet one descendent of Bittersteel would be enough for being a mummer's dragon. Could a mummer's dragon even mean a hidden dragon - mummery is hidden, no?- so it would fit Bittersteel well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezeh Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 In case of Bleakfyre I think it is quite hard to extinguish a family-line to the last one. Don't know if even Varys was so well informed (if he had the job during that time period) guessing that the Bleackfyres had a well known reason to hide their identity (well until they had again the power to claim something as theirs). Yet I don't say it's impossible, I doubt it, but it's my humble opinion. Yet one descendent of Bittersteel would be enough for being a mummer's dragon. Probably. Could a mummer's dragon even mean a hidden dragon - mummery is hidden, no?- so it would fit Bittersteel well. So far it could mean everything. After all Varis is a mummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anya, Vengeance Demon Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Why would Marwyn be the crow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil-galad Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Probably. So far it could mean everything. After all Varis is a mummer. But Varis is no dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezeh Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Why would Marwyn be the crow? Good question. But we know so little about him that he could be anything and all other position are taken unless he is mummers dragon but this is not likely. But Varis is no dragon. He is not, but Aegon true of false if he connected to Varis (and he should be) could be called mummer’s dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 The Pale Mare could just be Dany herself, maybe Quaithe is reciting some prophecy she's heard, if that's the case then Dany would be the Pale Mare. Also people have asked for Quaithe's motivation. I think Quaithe's motivation could be the same as Melisandre's. They are both Shadowbinders. Maybe like Maesters, their orgranizations is sending one to each of the potential AA, since maybe even they themselves don't know what's the real one, and each one is supposed to advise their target as though that person is the real one, to make sure that they don't miss out on the real one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezeh Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 The Pale Mare could just be Dany herself, maybe Quaithe is reciting some prophecy she's heard, if that's the case then Dany would be the Pale Mare. Also people have asked for Quaithe's motivation. I think Quaithe's motivation could be the same as Melisandre's. They are both Shadowbinders. Maybe like Maesters, their orgranizations is sending one to each of the potential AA, since maybe even they themselves don't know what's the real one, and each one is supposed to advise their target as though that person is the real one, to make sure that they don't miss out on the real one. Dany is neither mare (she is a dragon) nor pale. And Quaithe warnings look more like something she sow in flames then some ancient prophesy. Moreover associating with heraldic beasts seems to be Westeros tradition so all persons but “perfumed seneschal†should be either from Westeros or have Westeros connection like GC. This also means that the seneschal is not from Westeros. As for Quaithe motivation – it must be connected with prophesy – to save the world of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Dany is a Khaleesi, which is the horselords and often symbolized by a horse. She has pale hair, she also rides on a white mare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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