Gandalf Lundgren Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 ...was robbed. Dunno what made him raise that sword... He should have let Gregor bleed out. Ugh. Enough of this book for tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urien the Ragged Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 don't worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I don't know about robbed. The guy was fighting with a poisoned spear. Not exactly sporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urien the Ragged Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 and the mountain would have died a lot quicker if it wasn't that slow-acting stuff meant to cause the most excruciating pain in the world. he should have just taken his revenge and left it alone. the mountain was too stupid to realize irony or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urien the Ragged Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 there's also a little moby dick in this storyline.what did starbuck say about vengeance upon a dumb brute? pointless, blasphemous, etc.the mounatin no more meant anything personal to the martells when he raped and killed elia than moby dick did when he maimed ahab. there was no vengeance to be had. the cries of agony from the ignorant offer little comfort. he was just doing what he does, he was being the mountain as moby dick was being the whale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I enjoyed the irony in that scene. The Red Viper was trying to get the Mountain to lose his cool, but he was the one that got overly emotional and it cost him big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Larson Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Personally I would of been pretty upset if the 8 foot monster died easily to the viper without atleast wounding or bringing him down with him. The mountain was likely the most fierce/brute-like warrior during his time and if he didn't die in some cool fashion I would of been disappointed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear Me Roar! Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 there's also a little moby dick in this storyline.what did starbuck say about vengeance upon a dumb brute? pointless, blasphemous, etc.the mounatin no more meant anything personal to the martells when he raped and killed elia than moby dick did when he maimed ahab. there was no vengeance to be had. the cries of agony from the ignorant offer little comfort. he was just doing what he does, he was being the mountain as moby dick was being the whale.Excellent analysis. Wow. Very cool.Anyways, the Red Viper is an awesome character that it's just too damned bad we hardly got to see him. Disagree if you want, but...I feel like with the deaths of so many characters, Oberyn Martell would have been a good addition to future POVs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urien the Ragged Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Excellent analysis. Wow. Very cool.Anyways, the Red Viper is an awesome character that it's just too damned bad we hardly got to see him. Disagree if you want, but...I feel like with the deaths of so many characters, Oberyn Martell would have been a good addition to future POVs.agreed wholeheartedly. oberyn was part jaime, part loras tyrell, and part daario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nooksack Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I think a smarter killing blow on the viper's part would have been to walk up behind the Mountain (who was lying face first on the ground at that point), insert the sword into his eye slit, and stab him in the brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urien the Ragged Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 are we sure that oberyn planned to have the mountain die at the duel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyp Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 are we sure that oberyn planned to have the mountain die at the duel?Likely not, otherwise he wouldn't have used the venom. But I doubt he meant to die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther1 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Personally I would of been pretty upset if the 8 foot monster died easily to the viper without atleast wounding or bringing him down with him. The mountain was likely the most fierce/brute-like warrior during his time and if he didn't die in some cool fashion I would of been disappointedThe whole time I was reading this I just kept thinking "This is too easy, something bad is going to happen, mountains don't fall this easily." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucreel Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 there's also a little moby dick in this storyline.what did starbuck say about vengeance upon a dumb brute? pointless, blasphemous, etc.the mounatin no more meant anything personal to the martells when he raped and killed elia than moby dick did when he maimed ahab. there was no vengeance to be had. the cries of agony from the ignorant offer little comfort. he was just doing what he does, he was being the mountain as moby dick was being the whale.I'm personally of the opinion that the Red Viper had decided to become a martyr (or at least, was prepared for and accepted that possibility). He wanted Justice, and as you say, Clegane was a dumb tool - it would be like being angry at a sword, rather than the man who wields the sword.Martell wanted to get vengeance upon House Lannister - whom he, correctly, blamed for the murder and rape of the princess and her children. I think that he wanted to start a war with Lannister, and have Dorne declare independence, whilst bleeding out Lannister and their realms (including Highgarded), and decided the only way that would happen was if he got a confession out of Clegane, and perhaps died whilst doing so. I think his primary objective was the confession (hence part of why he hectored Clegane about it constantly during the fight - he wanted to provoke a response from Clegane, which he did, in a public setting with a large number of witnesses of high birth, so it could not be denied. I think he figured that if he did happen to die after getting the confession, well, that would add fuel to the flame, further provoking the Dornishmen to war.But, perhaps more importantly than "vengeance" or "justice", I think, perhaps, he couldn't accept the thought of Dorne being ruled by the likes of those that did such a thing. He could clearly see what sort of people the Lannisters were. I think, in part, he knew that war, and even all the suffering and death it would bring, would ultimately be better than having House Lannister rule over Dorne for perhaps a thousand years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toiltoil Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 The Red Viper (Oberyn Martell) is an awesome character, loved the fight between him and the mountian, wish we could have know him bether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I'm personally of the opinion that the Red Viper had decided to become a martyr (or at least, was prepared for and accepted that possibility). He wanted Justice, and as you say, Clegane was a dumb tool - it would be like being angry at a sword, rather than the man who wields the sword.Martell wanted to get vengeance upon House Lannister - whom he, correctly, blamed for the murder and rape of the princess and her children. I think that he wanted to start a war with Lannister, and have Dorne declare independence, whilst bleeding out Lannister and their realms (including Highgarded), and decided the only way that would happen was if he got a confession out of Clegane, and perhaps died whilst doing so. I think his primary objective was the confession (hence part of why he hectored Clegane about it constantly during the fight - he wanted to provoke a response from Clegane, which he did, in a public setting with a large number of witnesses of high birth, so it could not be denied. I think he figured that if he did happen to die after getting the confession, well, that would add fuel to the flame, further provoking the Dornishmen to war.But, perhaps more importantly than "vengeance" or "justice", I think, perhaps, he couldn't accept the thought of Dorne being ruled by the likes of those that did such a thing. He could clearly see what sort of people the Lannisters were. I think, in part, he knew that war, and even all the suffering and death it would bring, would ultimately be better than having House Lannister rule over Dorne for perhaps a thousand years.I agree with this. Wasn't it him who told Tyrion about Dorne's succession through the women and how Myrcella should be queen after Joffrey? This leads me to believe he had a whole lot more planned than just to kill the mountain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurney Halleck Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I was looking forward to this character being a part of the small council and absolutely tearing chunks out of everybody with cruel personal remarks. I'm sure he could look at anybody and know a nasty secret story to spill in front of the whole court.The interaction between Oberyn and Tyrion outside of KL is priceless for me, as he is dark, mean spirited and outright nasty to talk to. I loved that dialogue, it was so full of venom. Pun intended. I wish more characters were so blatantly rude, like Bronn.It's a shame he could not have waited for the Gregor to die, rather than "vault" away his life. Now I have to read about Doran whinging in his solar, watching little boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Beyond the Wall Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I really liked the Red Viper and was sad to see him die...though I must admit I knew it was going to happen as soon as he offered to fight for Tyrion. Gregor Clegane is only going to be killed by the hound...it is fitting and proper and we all know it will happen someday, so I just knew it had to go badly for the Viper:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory's Shade Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I really liked the Red Viper and was sad to see him die...though I must admit I knew it was going to happen as soon as he offered to fight for Tyrion. Gregor Clegane is only going to be killed by the hound...it is fitting and proper and we all know it will happen someday, so I just knew it had to go badly for the Viper:( So whose head is in the onyx box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karo Vyrga Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 It was disappointing to see the Red Viper go after his character was built up the way it was; only sired daughters, beds women and men, fought wars in the east, brought his paramour to Kings Landing, etc. His disregard to Westori norms outside of Dorne was refreshing to read. Valar Morghulis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.