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Jon Targaryen

[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] Jon 2 - Spoilers for ADWD

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Not until someone has a sword that glows and resonates heat from within (according to Maester Aemon). Till, then… nothing is definite. Also, I think only a blade made of Valyrian steel could manage such a transformation (and Jon is the only cool guy with a Valyrian blade, at the moment).

{assuming that Azor Ahai and the Prince Reborn are the same people, which many people don't think so}

Can we be certain that AA/Prince has to have a glowing sword? The prophecy, after all, appears to be rather vague. The prophecy could be speaking of a metaphorical sword i.e Dany's dragons who would a lot more effective against the Others compared to a single sword.

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True True. But wouldn't the prophecy guy (who i assume looks like a balding maester) know the diff between a sword and dragons. I wish this old bald headed guy had glasses or contacts and wasn't so friggen vague about everything he sees. :unsure:

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Not until someone has a sword that glows and resonates heat from within (according to Maester Aemon). Till, then… nothing is definite. Also, I think only a blade made of Valyrian steel could manage such a transformation (and Jon is the only cool guy with a Valyrian blade, at the moment).

{assuming that Azor Ahai and the Prince Reborn are the same people, which many people don't think so}

(a) George thinks that AA and the PwwP are the same person, and has confirmed it; other people may disagree, but they're not writing the series.

(B) If that's a necessary requirement, why is Maester Aemon of the opinion that Dany is the one from the prophecy? He doesn't know whether or not she has a glowing sword; instead he says that she fulfills the prophecy, and that the dragons prove it.

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Problem was that Stannis claimed to have Lightbringer, but his sword didn't fit the necessary requirements. It seemed to me that the lack of a hot glowing sword was negative evidence against Stannis, from Aemon's point of view, whereas the dragons were positive evidence in Dany's favour.

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(a) George thinks that AA and the PwwP are the same person, and has confirmed it; other people may disagree, but they're not writing the series.

(B) If that's a necessary requirement, why is Maester Aemon of the opinion that Dany is the one from the prophecy? He doesn't know whether or not she has a glowing sword; instead he says that she fulfills the prophecy, and that the dragons prove it.

I did not know GRRM had confirmed that the PwwP and AA are the same. That clears up a question.

So Melisandre is either reading the prophecy wrong or is deliberately interpreting the prophecy to mean AA must have Lightbringer?

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Melisandre's plan all along has been to find somebody with king's blood and wake a dragon. She's talking to Selyse about dragons as early as the prologue in ACoK; then there's the plan to capture Edric Storm, which other characters interpret as Stannis' attempt to prove Joffrey's bastardy. But note that Stannis never promises not to harm Edric Storm, nor does he say anything about why the boy is useful to him, just that Melisandre says he must have him.

So if I had to guess what Melisandre believes: Stannis really is AA reborn, the prince who was promised, etc., and the prince who was promised needs a dragon to fulfill the prophecy. However, getting a dragon will be difficult and take some time, and the masses (and maybe even Stannis himself) need a sign now. Hence Lightbringer, which is a lie that gets at a deeper truth.

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Warning: This post is a HUGE crackpot theory…

I think Melisandre keeps telling everyone (including Stannis) that he is the PWWP for her own hidden agenda. With Stannis believing it, she can get or do whatever she wants... almost shaping the future to the paths of her choosing (remember she said something about flames going in different directions... showing different possibilities). I think she's seen more in those flames than she's really letting on.

There is a slight difference between Thoros of Myr's practice of the red religion and Melisandre's way of practicing it. I do not recall Thoros ever mentioning shadows being children of light (it made sense while reading it, but something is a bit strange about this theory). This next sentence is totally going to state my paranoia concerning Melisandre. I really think she is an agent of the Lord of the Dark. She's found some dark balance between the magic found in light and is harnessing it for evil. Here me out on this... why didn't she tell Stannis about the happenings on the wall (why did it take Davos reading the letter). As stated before... all she really wants is a DRAGON.

I believe that if Dany has a dragon; and Euron might be getting one, then I think it only makes sense that this Stone dragon goes to the OTHERS (otherwise the fight will be as lame & one sided as the 'invasion' of Iraq...j/k). She is hell bent on this Dragon, and I think it is so that the OTHERS can become big players in this game... as they were meant to be (because honestly, as much as I love Sam, if he can kill an Other… they don’t seem as scary as when Ser Waymar Royce was fighting them). And a lack in the supply of Obsidian daggers doesn’t really heighten the anxiety to a nail-biting page turner.

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Warning: This post is a HUGE crackpot theory…

I think Melisandre keeps telling everyone (including Stannis) that he is the PWWP for her own hidden agenda. With Stannis believing it, she can get or do whatever she wants... almost shaping the future to the paths of her choosing (remember she said something about flames going in different directions... showing different possibilities). I think she's seen more in those flames than she's really letting on.

There is a slight difference between Thoros of Myr's practice of the red religion and Melisandre's way of practicing it. I do not recall Thoros ever mentioning shadows being children of light (it made sense while reading it, but something is a bit strange about this theory). This next sentence is totally going to state my paranoia concerning Melisandre. I really think she is an agent of the Lord of the Dark. She's found some dark balance between the magic found in light and is harnessing it for evil. Here me out on this... why didn't she tell Stannis about the happenings on the wall (why did it take Davos reading the letter). As stated before... all she really wants is a DRAGON.

I believe that if Dany has a dragon; and Euron might be getting one, then I think it only makes sense that this Stone dragon goes to the OTHERS (otherwise the fight will be as lame & one sided as the 'invasion' of Iraq...j/k). She is hell bent on this Dragon, and I think it is so that the OTHERS can become big players in this game... as they were meant to be (because honestly, as much as I love Sam, if he can kill an Other… they don’t seem as scary as when Ser Waymar Royce was fighting them). And a lack in the supply of Obsidian daggers doesn’t really heighten the anxiety to a nail-biting page turner.

I don't think this is a crackpot theory at all. When Red Priests and their fires are mentioned elsewhere in the books, it is not with the fear and trepidation that people speak of in connection with Melisandre. I agree she has a hidden agenda and is pulling the wool over Stannis' eyes.

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AA:

That's actually one of the more popular characterizations of Melisandre. I'm not a fan because I think it cheapens the character (suddenly she's just pure evil, which is no fun); and also, I think it would be more subversive to show how fighting the Ancient Evil, and believing yourself to be the hero foretold by history, can be warped into something horrible.

And I'm sure that the Others have _something_ up their sleeve to up the ante at the end of book five or six, but that doesn't mean that it has to be the stone dragon.

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AA:

That's actually one of the more popular characterizations of Melisandre. I'm not a fan because I think it cheapens the character (suddenly she's just pure evil, which is no fun); and also, I think it would be more subversive to show how fighting the Ancient Evil, and believing yourself to be the hero foretold by history, can be warped into something horrible.

And I'm sure that the Others have _something_ up their sleeve to up the ante at the end of book five or six, but that doesn't mean that it has to be the stone dragon.

Yeah, I agree with you about the Stone Dragon... Can't wait to see what the Others have in store for Westros

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AA:

That's actually one of the more popular characterizations of Melisandre. I'm not a fan because I think it cheapens the character (suddenly she's just pure evil, which is no fun); and also, I think it would be more subversive to show how fighting the Ancient Evil, and believing yourself to be the hero foretold by history, can be warped into something horrible.

And I'm sure that the Others have _something_ up their sleeve to up the ante at the end of book five or six, but that doesn't mean that it has to be the stone dragon.

I am not sure that Melisandre is all bad. I think she has taken the religion and given it her own spin. That doesn't necesaarily make her pure evil. However, I think dire times are ahead with Stannis moving into the Night Fort. He and Mel may come under some bad influence there.

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There is a slight difference between Thoros of Myr's practice of the red religion and Melisandre's way of practicing it. I do not recall Thoros ever mentioning shadows being children of light (it made sense while reading it, but something is a bit strange about this theory).

Remember, that Mel is also a shadow binder from Ashai. There is brief mention of it at the end of AGoT.

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Remember, that Mel is also a shadow binder from Ashai. There is brief mention of it at the end of AGoT.

I forgot about that. Is a shadow binder something exclusive to her religion only... or could someone like...Arya or Bran even learn this type of magic?

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I forgot about that. Is a shadow binder something exclusive to her religion only... or could someone like...Arya or Bran even learn this type of magic?

I don't think the Red Priest, Thoros, is a shadow binder. It must be an Asshai practice. Has anyone else been described as having this ability?

Paul H = it says Mel is a shadow binder at the end of AGoT?

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Tywin Lannister reports it as one of the stories coming from Dragonstone, that Stannis has "brought a shadowbinder from Asshai." It didn't specifically name Melisandre, but it is very likely that she is the Shadowbinder.

As for Melisandre, I think it's more likely that she's deceived herself into thinking that Stannis is AA, even if she knows that the sword is a fake. Certainly Aemon seemed to think that she was deceiving herself.

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isn't Dany pretty definitely the Prince who was promised?

She is obviously one of the three dragon’s heads. Yet it is possible that “the prince†is the one of the others.

As for Jon - he was given a clear sing that he is not a Stark and therefore could not become a King of te North.

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what sing was that?

Aemon thought she was the prince, that's good enough for me, he's the one that knows the entirety of the prophecy and he's the one that missed what it meant (that cock-biting quality Marwyn meant) for a hundred years. I think he got it right before he died.

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what sing was that?

Aemon thought she was the prince, that's good enough for me, he's the one that knows the entirety of the prophecy and he's the one that missed what it meant (that cock-biting quality Marwyn meant) for a hundred years. I think he got it right before he died.

Aemon admitted that he mistaken twice in interpretation of the prophesy. He surely thought that Deny fits the best but he wasn’t aware who the two other dragon’s heads are. So It’s possible that he mistaken again.

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Aemon admitted that he mistaken twice in interpretation of the prophesy. He surely thought that Deny fits the best but he wasn’t aware who the two other dragon’s heads are. So It’s possible that he mistaken again.

Its possible that he made a mistake again---but very unlikely.... Aemon you have to remember at the end of affc was considered probly the greatest maester alive. I also dont beleive Big George would want Aemon to go down without him doin or saying something great before he killed him off. But u never know with George...

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