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Jon Targaryen

[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] Jon 2 - Spoilers for ADWD

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Its possible that he made a mistake again---but very unlikely.... Aemon you have to remember at the end of affc was considered probly the greatest maester alive. I also dont beleive Big George would want Aemon to go down without him doin or saying something great before he killed him off. But u never know with George...

Aemon told a great deal of things before he died. Foe example that dragons are neither male nor female. Myself I also think that he was most probably right about Deny but we will never be sure at least until we will learn who are the two others dragon’s heads.

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I think Mel really thought Stannis was the one, she probably still does for all we know. She is powerful, but also fallable. She seems to have a hard time truly reading what is in the flames accurately, which seems to be a common theme for the Red Priests. Thoros seems to have similar problems (remember his vision of Riverrun in Flames?)

I think she continues to look into the fires and she learns more as she goes. Perhaps coming to the Wall, or maybe Jon's proximity to her, has brought a whole new set of visions for her and now she needs to try and reason out what she's seeing.

I think she'll continue to try and wake a dragon, and like was said above, it'll turn out very badly. It'll muck up the Wall and just backfire horribly.

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From ASoS:

"When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. The bleeding star has come and gone, and Dragonstone is the place of smoke and salt."

Melisandre reveals this part of the prophecy to Davos to justify why she thinks Stannis is Azor Ahai; however, it actually supports Aemon's thinking that Dany is AA. The last chapter of AGoT is Dany entering the fire as her dragons are born from the stone eggs. The prologue to ACoK opens with this sentence, "The comet's tail spread across the dawn, a red slash that bled above the crags of Dragonstone like a wound in the pink and purple sky." So in continuity the red star was bleeding when Dany was born again in the fire that hatched her dragons.

Unfortunately Melisandre is still trying to figure out how to turn stone into a dragon when the simple explanation was that the dragon eggs were stone. I do think from the visions that the undying gave Dany that Melisandre will accomplish conjuring a stone dragon but what purpose it will serve is not clear.

ego :D

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From ASoS:

"When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. The bleeding star has come and gone, and Dragonstone is the place of smoke and salt."

Melisandre reveals this part of the prophecy to Davos to justify why she thinks Stannis is Azor Ahai; however, it actually supports Aemon's thinking that Dany is AA. The last chapter of AGoT is Dany entering the fire as her dragons are born from the stone eggs. The prologue to ACoK opens with this sentence, "The comet's tail spread across the dawn, a red slash that bled above the crags of Dragonstone like a wound in the pink and purple sky." So in continuity the red star was bleeding when Dany was born again in the fire that hatched her dragons.

Unfortunately Melisandre is still trying to figure out how to turn stone into a dragon when the simple explanation was that the dragon eggs were stone. I do think from the visions that the undying gave Dany that Melisandre will accomplish conjuring a stone dragon but what purpose it will serve is not clear.

ego :D

excellent example ser ego! i never thought far enough back to think about when dany and her eggs were hatched..... i just thought it was when dany was born ----- im a dumbass lol

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The Karstarks are on surface with Stannis according to Jon's first two ADWD chapters, right. We see that the Karstarks are supporting and pushing Stannis idea to swiftly strike against the Dreadfort. Jon immediately sees this plan as moronic, because of the defensive capabilities of the Dreadfort and Stannis lack of men and time. Shouldn't someone from the North understand and recognize this? Yet the Karstarks backs the idea. Incompetence and/or asskissing on the part of Arnolf Karstark or something more sinister, maybe because they are working to get Stannis to selfdestruct?

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I don't think it's either. Remember that the Karstarks are supporting Stannis because they've

A)Abandoned the Iron Throne's rule by following Robb into rebellion;

B)Rebelled against Robb.

They are probably afraid that the Boltons, whether with the men under Ramsay Bolton from the Dreadfort, or Roose Bolton's host below the neck, will attack them. Especially since their land boundaries are fairly close, if I remember right.

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I hate the fact that Jon Snow has allowed the wildings to go beyond the Wall, and even arm them with spears. I think he should not have let Stannis demand this much of him. After all, the wall was built to keep wildlings and other creatures off the lands of the civilized men... I'm sure the other men of the NW think that Stannis is stepping on Jon like a welcome mat.

The Wall was built to keep out the Others, not wild men

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Just a few comments, if I may.....

I find it remarkable that we're fascinated by all the possibilites and consequent intrigue in a fractured and merciless North given so many other options around GRRM's world including Dany's unmatched strength out at Slaver's Bay. I think we're intimately privy to the Stark lands and Stark bannersmen like no other House, and of course for good reason: we had 6 Stark POV's in AGOT.

I remember a section in AGOT where Jon agonizes over his lot in life: him on the Wall, when he felt he should be where the "action" is, alongside Robb. He almost abandons the NW to join his half brother only to have Sam, Pyp and Grenn bring him back.

And now, with Winter approaching, Winterfell in shambles, the Stark bannermen fractured and splintered, the Others descending on the Wall and North at any moment, Stannis, Mel and Davos all along the Wall, the Ironmen at large, wildlings everywhere, we sure have a chaotic but very interesting situation.

In reality, I hate cold weather, but boy the way GRRM sets up the North, I couldn't love it more - a cold climate for cold, traditional men, those who still keep to the old gods.

I like the theory presented by a previous poster regarding Asha and Theon bumping into Jon.... Although there was a bitterness between Theon & Jon, I can actually see the 2 of them become strong allies given everything they've gone through.

As for Stannis, I'm not sure what GRRM has planned for him. I can't even begin to guess.

I did feel that the Jon Snow that advised Stannis to take Deepwood Motte from the Ironmen wasn't LC of the NW, it was Lord Eddard Stark's son, it was Winterfell's son, a Northman, and a Stark through and through. Although the advise Jon offers Stannis made sense, I suspect he wanted more to dissuade Stannis from taking and giving Winterfell to a Karstark than to actually help Stannis. The advise he presented actually knocked off 2 birds with 1 stone since driving the Ironborn out of Deepwood Motte in some semblance protects the Glovers and strengthens the North not to mention keeps Winterfell out of Karstark and Stannis' hands a bit longer.

Lastly, I really hope Dany doesn't land North, all she wants to to is conquer westeros and sit on the Iron Throne anyway. She may be the AA and Prince that was Promised for all I care, as long as she doesn't steal Jon's thunder :P

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I like the theory presented by a previous poster regarding Asha and Theon bumping into Jon.... Although there was a bitterness between Theon & Jon, I can actually see the 2 of them become strong allies given everything they've gone through.

Theon is a turncloak and a child-killer, and that is the only way Jon will ever see him.

Theon might end up on the Wall, and Jon may make use of him, but Jon will never like him

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And now, with Winter approaching, Winterfell in shambles, the Stark bannermen fractured and splintered, the Others descending on the Wall and North at any moment, Stannis, Mel and Davos all along the Wall, the Ironmen at large, wildlings everywhere, we sure have a chaotic but very interesting situation.

I did feel that the Jon Snow that advised Stannis to take Deepwood Motte from the Ironmen wasn't LC of the NW, it was Lord Eddard Stark's son, it was Winterfell's son, a Northman, and a Stark through and through. Although the advise Jon offers Stannis made sense, I suspect he wanted more to dissuade Stannis from taking and giving Winterfell to a Karstark than to actually help Stannis. The advise he presented actually knocked off 2 birds with 1 stone since driving the Ironborn out of Deepwood Motte in some semblance protects the Glovers and strengthens the North not to mention keeps Winterfell out of Karstark and Stannis' hands a bit longer.

And considering that Jon is giving that kind of advice to Stannis, and seems likely to join Stannis on his way to Deepwood, wouldn't you say there is a chance that Jon will be called again to take his place as Lord in Winterfell? Maybe not by Stannis this time but by Robett Glover, Maege Mormont and Howland Reed? Robett Glover is now the Lord of Deepwood and was sent to Greywater Watch after Robb declared an heir to his kingdom. Considering that the garrison at Moat Cailin is probably weak enough to allow the crannogmen to get though. Mormont and Glover could be in the North again near the start of AFFC/ADWD....

The Boltons may try to use Theon to lift the stalemate at Moat Cailin. If Jon get a holds of Theon.... Well, that could get ugly, but as a positive Jon may learn that his brothers are still alive.

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Aye, and I do hope Jon finds out that Arya, Bran, and Rickon are alive soon. So painful to see "almost" reunions between the Starks - at first, there was an almost-reunion between Bran and Jon early in ASOS, and then it was an almost-reunion between Arya and her mother and Robb at the Twins. At least Bran & Arya know that Jon should be still be alive and well at the Wall.

It's very possible we'll see Jon entertaining dreams of being lord of Winterfell, King of the North and much later, even King of Seven Kingdoms. I've seen other theories floating around with that respect, especially since GRRM went through the trouble of having Robb setting up Jon as his heir. I'm still not sure if he would accept being Lord of Winterfell or King of the North in the end. He may very well accept though, since Lord Commander of the Night's Watch was kind of thrusted on him and the other titles may follow soon enough.

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(a) George thinks that AA and the PwwP are the same person, and has confirmed it; other people may disagree, but they're not writing the series.

This is not at all my understanding. Link please.

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what if mel and stannis burned the wrong horn? i can just see GRRM rotfl

with that little twist.dany shows up at the wall,eruon blows the horn of dragons and the wall falls!!

that would be a blast!!!! no pun intended

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what if mel and stannis burned the wrong horn? i can just see GRRM rotfl

with that little twist.dany shows up at the wall,eruon blows the horn of dragons and the wall falls!!

that would be a blast!!!! no pun intended

Uh... What do you think that soundless horn is that Jon gave to Sam and suggested he make into a drinking cup?

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Everyone keeps saying Jon wont break his vows, naw he wont...but he almost did so many times before, GOT he almost took off and prolly would of if not for his buds. A friend of mine brought up an interesting idea, everyone knows Jon is gonna prepare to fight the Others and he knows that alone the NW and Stannis cant face them, and in one of the DWD chaps Stannis tells Jon if he doesnt have the walls manned within the year hes just gonna take them, anyways my buddy said it would be cool if Jon accepted Robbs thing and became King of the North, so he could quickly unite the North to face the Others, this way he could use those men to man the wall in time for the battle, ah but what would Stannis say of Jon be coming King?

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Uh... What do you think that soundless horn is that Jon gave to Sam and suggested he make into a drinking cup?

It looks very suspicious. ;)

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It was Galbart Glover who was sent to Greywater Watch. He was and is the lord of Deepwood Motte. Robett Glover was his brother and heir. He was south with the forces at Duskendale. More than likely he bent the knee. It was Robett's wife and children who were taken by Asha. Galbart does not have children, which is why he had taken Lawrence Snow, the Bastard of Hornwood, as his ward. He too was taken by Asha. Snow is the key to fixing the Hornwood problem since there are no other relatives left.

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I think that the only thing that will make Jon leave the NW is the weirwood, or his gods. And the way that this series is going i think that the next stage of these books is for the gods to get involved.

We already have Thoros and Mel with wicked crazy powers then you have the direwolves with their incredible abilities, and also what of the Jaq guy that gave Arya the coin? and Pate? and the guy with the key in the begining?

I really think that the battle is going to be taken out of incompetent people's hand *cough* Cersei cough*, and put into the hands of the gods and their chosen.

So.....maybe a visit from Jon's gods? just a thought.....dont know if it is right

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It was Galbart Glover who was sent to Greywater Watch. He was and is the lord of Deepwood Motte. Robett Glover was his brother and heir. He was south with the forces at Duskendale. More than likely he bent the knee. It was Robett's wife and children who were taken by Asha. Galbart does not have children, which is why he had taken Lawrence Snow, the Bastard of Hornwood, as his ward. He too was taken by Asha. Snow is the key to fixing the Hornwood problem since there are no other relatives left.

Actually i think he has it right with Robett BUT he was the one captured at Duskendale and was returned to White Harbour in exchange for Kevin's kid, so he could be anywhere in the North now (That's how it is at Citadel anyways Ran's usually right). And with the Hornwood issue things haven't changed since Bran looked the problem over Loebald's wife (Lord Halys sister) had two sons that can take her name and replant the house.

EDIT: My mistake TPG you were right here that heraldry section for house Glover needs some serious revamping for accuracy since it also says Ethan Glover was killed by King Aerys.

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