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Winds of Winter Reading at WorldCon


gbellinator

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this seems reasonable enough. i think

jon's backstory and the obvious cliffhanger we're left with is more than enough evidence that GRRM isn't finished at all with telling jon's tale. his POV is paramount to the rest of that narrative, I feel.

We've been promised that Jon's parentage would be revealed, but there would be no point in revealing it, in terms of plot, were he really dead. I plot terms, it's got to be a revelation that has a big impact on Jon. In fact, the whole of Jon's story would be a bit pointless (though interesting) if he did in fact die at the end of ADWD. So, while Jon may not survive to the end of the series, I doubt if his story is done at this stage.

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It is almost impossible to keep up with the conversation.

I liked the way it started, and then things just fell off topic.

I am not a supreme follower that stalks any rumor about the upcoming book, of what GRRM is having to drink with his breakfast the next morning.

Whatever chapters he has pulled from Dance with Dragons, or whatever he created new specifically for Winds of Winter is best revealed upon publishing date...then there will be no uncertainty.

There are some loose ends that I am curios about....

When Mormont was dying at the Fist, north of the wall....he requested Sam to seek out his son. What is going to become of that?

Jorah is undeniably committed to a cause in the East, but even if Sam finds him or gets word to him, will it do anything to change his current course? I think, in spite of all his troubles in the last book, he would not walk away from all his effort and his trials to abandon his Queen.

Also, what will become of Lady Stoneheart, ( hopefully you know who this character is)? I think she knows a lot more of what was going on during Feast for Crows than she acted. I think she meant to put Brienne in her predicament to learn just how far her resolve was, and to set her to a task, only once she had proved herself....which isn't hard to do with a noose on your neck I imagine.

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We've been promised that Jon's parentage would be revealed, but there would be no point in revealing it, in terms of plot, were he really dead. I plot terms, it's got to be a revelation that has a big impact on Jon. In fact, the whole of Jon's story would be a bit pointless (though interesting) if he did in fact die at the end of ADWD. So, while Jon may not survive to the end of the series, I doubt if his story is done at this stage.

I have a theory - Jon must survive because he is the third dragon - Rhaegar's and Eddard's sister son. Who else could be the third dragon?

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LOL...didn't mean to point anyone out in that last post.

I just remembered one critical detail, that has me curious.

Upon Jons' last chapter when he is assaulted and contemplating what is happening he has a thought of Ghost.

Would it be fair to assume, without regard to him not having done it before.....that he may have entered into Ghost at the end?

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LOL...didn't mean to point anyone out in that last post.

I just remembered one critical detail, that has me curious.

Upon Jons' last chapter when he is assaulted and contemplating what is happening he has a thought of Ghost.

Would it be fair to assume, without regard to him not having done it before.....that he may have entered into Ghost at the end?

I think, considering the prologue (which I just re-read) that this is entirely possible. Also, one line in the prologue jumped out at me. while Varmyr lies dying, he thinks about Jon at one point, and he thinks he should've "taken" Ghost from Jon. Then he thinks, "That would be a second life fit for a king."

Hmmmmm. I just found that kind of intriguing. I've been thinking all along that these character's we've come to know are destined for something bigger than just king/queen/etc. of Westeros, but maybe this is another hint that Jon could end up as king. Just a thought. I don't have any strong convictions on this but that line really jumped out at me.

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Which prologue are you referring?

I only have 2 of the books, #3 and #5.

Varamyr's; it's the prologue of A Dance With Dragons.

There was talk a while back about how the Wildling response to the Pink Letter might indicate that Jon will succeed Mance as King-Beyond-the-Wall. I hope he's not dead, but I'd prefer to see him healed through maesterly means rather than resurrected by R'hllor.

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However, Varamyr is now stuck in One-Eye, he said he would lose his natural born skin changer abilities if his human body died. In the prologue, Varamyr also mentioned how it would be a second life fit for a king as the direwolf Ghost. Also, in a Bran chapter Bloodraven tells Bran that when he dies a part of him will automatically go into Summer. So if Jon dies he may be Ghost permanently.

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jon -

<P>In an interview shortly after publication, the interviewer talked about

killing off jon, and George said "you think he's dead?" or something to that

effect...&nbsp; so i don't believe it.&nbsp; and of course he set us up for it

in the beginning with varamyr's prologue - with varamyr shifting directly into

one of his skins when his body kicked - so why couldn't jon, even if his

body does die - it means little...</P>

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Sounds awfully Matrix-like to me. Not to give away any spoilers for those who haven't seen Revolutions. (actually, don't waste your time if you haven't, it's not as good as the other two, but still worth seeing I guess if you just want to see what happens) Anyway, that's a good idea, and likely, I think, with what Melisandre's vision said. So let's just summarize the possibilities:

1. Jon is dead, doesn't warg into anything, end of story

2. Jon slips into Ghost permanently

3. Jon slips into Ghost temporarily, people think he is dead, and he later slips back into his own body.

4. Jon slips into Ghost, then slips into someone else and takes control of their body, possibly one of the bodies in the frozen cells (I'm sure GRRM put them there for a reason).

5. Jon is wounded and doesn't actually die, though he's left for dead. Somebody finds him and nurses him back (most likely a wildling friend)

6. Jon is dead, but Melisandre brings him back (my least favorite, this could get overdone, Heroes, anyone?)

7. The Jon who died was really a faceless man (just kidding)

Did I miss any?

I sort of like 3 and 4 the best, with 3 my personal favorite. I'm hoping R+L=J is true and he's one of the dragon heads, so I'm biased.

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