whats going on with Sansa?

[FacelessGirl]

I don't know, he might if Sansa asked him to. Although, at this stage in the game, and with the possibility of what's going to happen between Sansa/LF in the next book...she may not stay his hand. But I do think that if when Sandor comes back, he's going to be much more in control of his rage. I can't see him going against Sansa's express wishes either, so if she definitively says No, I don't think he'd go against her.

LF will have to die. But you're right, Sandor won't do anything unless Sansa asks him to. He's her dog, and dogs listen to their owners. ^_^

[ICE CROW]

LF will have to die. But you're right, Sandor won't do anything unless Sansa asks him to. He's her dog, and dogs listen to their owners. ^_^

And what of CROWS?

[FacelessGirl]

And what of CROWS?

I don't know, you'll have to show me. ^_^

[3LittleBirds]

COOL IT YOU TWO!!! I like this thread, damnit!

[FacelessGirl]

OK, I'm leaving, I'm leaving. :P

[3LittleBirds]

LF will have to die. But you're right, Sandor won't do anything unless Sansa asks him to. He's her dog, and dogs listen to their owners. ^_^

GUH :wub:

But personally, I'd like to see Sansa go all "dirty deeds, done dirt cheap" when it comes to LF. Like, she has a variety of ways available to her. Poison him with the hairnet strangler amethysts, girl! Push him off a high place! Maybe even Sandor comes to rescue her, and she's like, "Hang on a sec, brb," and they she goes and kills him in his sleep real quick. And then they can ride off happily into the sunset. :D

[FacelessGirl]

GUH :wub:

But personally, I'd like to see Sansa go all "dirty deeds, done dirt cheap" when it comes to LF. Like, she has a variety of ways available to her. Poison him with the hairnet strangler amethysts, girl! Push him off a high place! Maybe even Sandor comes to rescue her, and she's like, "Hang on a sec, brb," and they she goes and kills him in his sleep real quick. And then they can ride off happily into the sunset. :D

I mean I won't be dissapointed if it doesn't play out like that... but if it does, I'll be so proud of Sansa. Just a real girl power moment. The thought brings a tear to my eye. :blush:

[brashcandy]

I love the theory that LF would go crazy thinking that once again he's lost the girl :) but I fear its unlikely to happen this way.

We know that he's in a much more powerful position than he was in when he was a young boy vying for Cat's affections. He learnt the hard way that swords are not his forte, and that he's much more effective being a snake. However, what I think will surprise him is that Sansa has a love interest. I think he's much more self composed and cunning to let it derail his plans, but I do agree that it would rattle him.

It would be a real shock to him that sweet gentle Sansa is in love with someone like the Hound. Sandor is in fact the last person he would suspect. This is why, if Sansa does intend to use Sandor to escape, she has to spring it on LF at the last, final, deadly moment.

Otherwise LF would be able to plan his attack on Sandor, which will probably involve blaming him on the whole Saltpans affair.

But I do prefer the plotline of Sansa escaping LF's clutches without the help of Sandor, and then meeting up with him later on. Although... who cares! As long as they hook up and soon! :)

[Été]

You know what would really piss him out about San/San? He's able to write off a certain amount of his failure with Cat to class prejudices, but Sandor's house is still younger, still more recently upjumped than the Baelishes. The guy isn't even a member of the nobility - he had to sell his sword to the damn Lannisters to make a living.

LF spends his entire adult life working to prove he's the equal of any high lord in spite of where he came from, he accumulates all this power, wealth and land, and when he gets his romantic do-over, the girl prefers someone who's actually lower-born than him. :bang:

I'm not a shipper, but I really like the idea of the colossal shitstorm they would cause. LF would have a breakdown, Tyrion would cry like a baby, Cersei would laugh herself stupider, and most of all - Arya! :lol:

[Alexia]

LF spends his entire adult life working to prove he's the equal of any high lord in spite of where he came from, he accumulates all this power, wealth and land, and when he gets his romantic do-over, the girl prefers someone who's actually lower-born than him. :bang:

:lol:

I should feel sorry for LF, but I don't. I really want Tyrion and LF both to learn about the crush (when they aren't in a position to do anything about it) just to see their reactions. LF's would be especially epic, because Sandor is not only lower born but also really hideously disfigured with anger management problems -- not at all like the rather elegant, urbane, LF. And Tyrion's makes me curious because he chalks all his problems in life, including Sansa's displeasure at their marriage, to his dwarfism and lack of attractiveness.

However, if Cersei were to learn of it she would immediately decide that Sandor was in on the plot to kill Joffrey all along. :lol:

[TheCasualObserver]

As strange as I find the San/San relationship (and something tells me it's happening soon) this thread has really brought me round to the idea. On the other hand, the hound is Mr Burny face.

[1234567]

LF finger may have learned that he can't win the game playing their way i.e. strength of arms, but I think he is now over confident about his political maneuvering and has forgotten that strength of arms still have their place.

I think Sansa, due to her experiences at King's Landing (the Hounds strong arms speech and even Cersei's advice on men) have already given her some insight into the use of brute force and now her political tuition with Littlefinger will make her into a much better game player than LF.

It could be that rather than out scheme him, she may just realize that despite all his plots, he is still just as vunerable to a man with a sword as he was when he fought Brandon Stark. LF seems to have forgotten this.

Actually the situation reminds me a lot of Varys riddle to Tyrion in ACOK about the Sellsword and the threemen. LF has forgotten they still have power.

[Starbird]

We know that he's in a much more powerful position than he was in when he was a young boy vying for Cat's affections. He learnt the hard way that swords are not his forte, and that he's much more effective being a snake. However, what I think will surprise him is that Sansa has a love interest. I think he's much more self composed and cunning to let it derail his plans, but I do agree that it would rattle him.

It would be a real shock to him that sweet gentle Sansa is in love with someone like the Hound. Sandor is in fact the last person he would suspect. This is why, if Sansa does intend to use Sandor to escape, she has to spring it on LF at the last, final, deadly moment.

Augh! This is exactly what I was thinking but you beat me here! :) Good post by White Fang, too.

LF is certainly not the same young kid with high hopes as he was when Catelyn was betrothed to Brandon. He has many, many more resources at his fingertips now. Sandor's the man, of course, but not even he could fight off more than a few defenders, and LF at one point had all the gold cloaks at his disposal. If LF became aware of Sandor as a threat, he could easily have him killed.

As much as I love LF, I can't foresee Sansa being free to be with Sandor so long as LF lives. Having Sandor kill LF would be wholly unsatisfying to me, though. LF has been described as a "small man." Sandor has been described as "hulking." Any physical engagement between them would look like the big kid on the playground picking on the little twerp. LF hasn't lived by the sword so it's not appropriate that he should die by the sword. Therefore, I think it's Sansa who's meant to remove him from the game. His love/lust for Cat/Sansa is his one weakness and it should be that that does him in.

Wow, I'm already sad thinking of poor LF's demise! :crying: He's like Sandor in that he just wants to be loved! Sandor was lucky enough to blunder into it and Petyr's been working for YEARS towards that end and, if White Fang is right, will be cruelly thwarted. Oh, my breaking heart!

[Alexia]

Wow, I'm already sad thinking of poor LF's demise! :crying: He's like Sandor in that he just wants to be loved! Sandor was lucky enough to blunder into it and Petyr's been working for YEARS towards that end and, if White Fang is right, will be cruelly thwarted. Oh, my breaking heart!

You know though, LF might have been able to blunder into true love as well if he hadn't decided to spend his life obsessed by a woman who rejected him when they were children. :lol:

LF fans mystify me -- he's such a pathetic character yet some find him tragic. :uhoh:

[the Scorpion Knight]

You know though, LF might have been able to blunder into true love as well if he hadn't decided to spend his life obsessed by a woman who rejected him when they were children. :lol:

LF fans mystify me -- he's such a pathetic character yet some find him tragic. :uhoh:

me too. FIrst thing I would have done as hand would be replacing him (because he didn't say no)

[Starbird]

You know though, LF might have been able to blunder into true love as well if he hadn't decided to spend his life obsessed by a woman who rejected him when they were children. :lol:

LF fans mystify me -- he's such a pathetic character yet some find him tragic. :uhoh:

Blunder into true love: this is true. I find it sweet, though, that he's carried a torch for Cat all these years (assuming it's her and not the goal of getting her that keeps him going, that is). This is not to say that he's off the hook for the many horrible things he's orchestrated, however. Here's why I like LF as a character:

* he's intelligent. His success isn't an accident. He worked for it. If plan A doesn't work out, see plan B. If plan B fails, go to plan C. He's very good at deciphering what people really want. He's also very good at handling high-stress situations and changing his plans on the fly. (He turned Lysa's threatening of Sansa to his own advantage very quickly, even with Marillion there as a witness.)

* he's proactive. He hasn't sat around bemoaning his low birth, he's actively improved his station. Even after decades, he's still trying to get the girl.

* he's subtle. Oh, the crown wants Winterfell? Hey, I'll take one for the team and marry Sansa. Oh, I don't own any lands? Sure, haunted, broken-down Harrenhal is good enough for me, thanks. Oh, I'm still not good enough? I don't mind trekking up to the Vale to seduce annoying Lysa Arryn to join the war. No one suspects his end game.

* he's patient. The man has been working his plan most of his life. He watched Catelyn move north, marry Ned, produce 5 kids, and generally live her life without him, but he didn't give up. Also, see the point above. He doesn't cave to resistance, he doesn't pout, he just keeps working.

* his mistakes are few, his self-control is pretty incredible. Brushing back Sansa's hair at the Hand's Tourney was telling but he realized that and abruptly left.

* he chews mint/is well groomed. This is minor but after reading about the sour wine breath of many another character, he gets points for being minty fresh. (I love the Hound, of course, but he's got to stink most of the time.)

* he could be fun. That snowball scene with Sansa - love it. He's got his guard up most of the time but I sense a playful side, too. Most of the time he's like a boiling tea kettle with the stopper closed. Just seething for release.

* he does the dirty work. Lysa. Screaming. 'Nough said. :shudder: It's all about sticking to the plan, though.

So, pathetic? No. When I think of pathetic characters, I think of Cersei, Theon, Quentyn Martell. Brienne, to an extent. They just get in their own way. They should know better but they don't.

Is LF tragic? Sadly, yes, I think it's going to end up that way. LF's main motivation is to be good enough. He was stung by the rejection of his suit for Cat. Why should his low birth be held against him? He couldn't help his birth. (I think 'civil rights' and 'women's sufferage' and can understand his frustration.) He's done everything he could possibly do to be worthy, and what happens? Catelyn just doesn't feel the same way about him. Ouch. Of course, some of what he did to be worthy wasn't very nice, and that will be why his story has to end tragically. Someone with LF's sins on their karmic report card can't be allowed to triumph, and that makes me rather sad for him. I can see why others might disagree, though. What I'm seeing as 'young boy with hurt feelings,' others might see as 'entitled brat with a chip on his shoulder.'

Then there's the thing with Sansa. I rather enjoy his pervy creeping. (It's fiction so, hey, whatever.) Coming on to a teen girl isn't cool, of course, but I can sympathize with his desire to get the girl, even if by proxy. He's worked so hard and so long, I can't really blame him for trying to get Sansa to play the part that would make him so happy. (Again, it's fiction so, go for it, LF!) Even as he's trying to seduce Sansa, though, he holds back and plots and plans and thinks and waits. He's like a spring that's very tightly compressed. That pressure is going to find a release eventually but how? When? What will trigger it? That's what makes LF so compelling to me, and his need to be good enough makes me empathetic. I'll mourn his death when it happens even though he became corrupt by his efforts to deal with his awakening to the 'real world.' Sansa, in contrast, has remained relatively pure (so far). And that's why she will live and he will not. :(

[White Fang]

LF finger may have learned that he can't win the game playing their way i.e. strength of arms, but I think he is now over confident about his political maneuvering and has forgotten that strength of arms still have their place.

I think Sansa, due to her experiences at King's Landing (the Hounds strong arms speech and even Cersei's advice on men) have already given her some insight into the use of brute force and now her political tuition with Littlefinger will make her into a much better game player than LF.

It could be that rather than out scheme him, she may just realize that despite all his plots, he is still just as vunerable to a man with a sword as he was when he fought Brandon Stark. LF seems to have forgotten this.

Actually the situation reminds me a lot of Varys riddle to Tyrion in ACOK about the Sellsword and the threemen. LF has forgotten they still have power.

See this is why I don't really like Littlefinger, he's obviously come to the conclusion at some point that he's "good in chaos", which, to be fair,seems to be true. But the way he goes about it is far too heavy handed in my opion, he just knocks the supports out of the house (killing Jon Arryn and Joffrey, he did that purely because he knew it would stir everything up) of cards and hopes he'll be smart enough to land on top. This is akin to constantly re-shuffling cards until you get the hand you want, but eventually you have to play with the hand you've got. It's worked for him so far due to luck and no one thinking that he was enough of a threat to pay attention to. That can't keep saving him, remember what happened when Tyrion (second favourite character) was hand? He saw Littlefinger for what he was straight away and would have had him killed there and then, only his nerve failed him slightly, and he tired to trap him instead.

But can you see where this is going? He delights in causing chaos, but he forgets that the best time to kill a man of influence (that's him now) is when the realm is in anarchy. It didn't really matter before becuae he had nothing to lose and everything to gain, he could just knock over the table and pick up all the chips he could. Now that same tactic means that someone else is just as likely to take all the chips he's risking. And what about people who aren't playing? Who have no chips and aren't looking for them? The best time for them (be they big and fierce with burn scars, or whatever) to strike is during the confusion, when everyone's trying to hold on to what they have and take what no else is looking at.

I think he's way out of his league and just doesn't realise it, he thinks that just because no one's noticed him before, it makes him much smarter than them and now he's playing with some of the most dangerous people in the whole world, not just Westeros. Not only the most powerful, but the smartest and the best fighters. The higher he rises the more people are gunning for him, and the faster he rises the more people see him as a threat and will kill him purely to stop him being a nuissance later. He hasn't just underestimated the power a great fighter has, he's underestimated everything, and that's what'll kill him in the end, although obviously it would be best if Sandor beat him to death with his helm.

[Medieval Housefly]

Who would make a better ruler of Westeros, Dany or Sansa?

[Lord Damian]

Sansa, I beleive will be a queen, maybe not "the queen", but a queen none the less.

[Starbird]

It's worked for him so far due to luck and no one thinking that he was enough of a threat to pay attention to. That can't keep saving him, remember what happened when Tyrion (second favourite character) was hand? He saw Littlefinger for what he was straight away and would have had him killed there and then, only his nerve failed him slightly, and he tired to trap him instead.

I think he's way out of his league and just doesn't realise it, he thinks that just because no one's noticed him before, it makes him much smarter than them and now he's playing with some of the most dangerous people in the whole world, not just Westeros. Not only the most powerful, but the smartest and the best fighters. The higher he rises the more people are gunning for him, and the faster he rises the more people see him as a threat and will kill him purely to stop him being a nuissance later. He hasn't just underestimated the power a great fighter has, he's underestimated everything, and that's what'll kill him in the end, although obviously it would be best if Sandor beat him to death with his helm.

I don't remember this. Can you be more specific?

Who are these other world players? Varys? Illyrio? Stannis? Dany?

I'm not sure how much higher he could rise. He's already effectively the treasurer of Westeros. He could acquire more land and become a lord but he's right in the thick of things already. Also, the realm would suffer financially without him. No one else is as good as finding money when it's needed as LF.

I think if he's underestimated anyone or anything, it's Sansa. He's not counting on her having already made a connection with another man.

I get the feeling you think LF is cocky. I don't think he creates chaos in hopes of coming out on top. I think he creates chaos to give himself something to do. It's like practice for his various skills. If things get too quiet, there's no challenge for him.