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Jojen Reed's fate? (ADWD Spoilers)


starkloyalist

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I hope Jojen survives but clearly this is an alien world to him and his sister Meera. They are from the swamp marshy areas teaming with life and magic. they are stuck in a cave with tree people, and a bunch of ghollum like creatures with cat eyes. surrounded by others and wytes. This must be depressing.

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A few thing come into play in my mind lending credence some doubts about the CotF/3EC intentions with Bran/Meera/Jojen/Hodor:

1- Cannibalism as a recurring theme in this book.

2- Greenseers, do they have to have green or red eyes? Because Bran has blue. Gives me the feeling 3EC is being misleading and has other intentions for Bran.

3- Big pile of bones on the stroll down into the caves brought Gendel's Children to mind.

4- After Bran eats the weirwood paste, Jojen and Meera are not around. Along with how it looked like it had veins, Bran almost retching it up then thinking it was almost the best thing he ever ate by the time he finishes.

5- ColdHands feeding them them some "pigs."

6- There has to be some reason the Andals cut down all those weirwood trees. Especially now that we know some of how they can be used.

7- Bran seeing the sacrifice through the wierwood and tasting the blood.

8- "The moon was a crescent, thin and sharp as the blade of a knife." He does mention the moon going through a few changes, but why this particular description of time passing.

9- I don't like how they are trapped in the cave with tons of wights just outside blocking their way out. Just seems to well setup.

I don't know if any of this necessarily makes them evil, but I do feel like they are being deceptive. They may even be on the good side of this, but that doesn't mean that Bran/Meera/Jojen/Hodor are going to be happy with each of their individual fates.

Jojen is in Bran's belly. I think Greenseers need crannogman paste/weirwood mash to make them see clearly. I also think Howland Reed was made into paste for Bloodraven.

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I doubt Howland Reed was paste for Bloodraven.. I'm even pretty sure GRRM has said in an interview that Howland Reed could not come into the story sooner because he knows too much about the big reveals that will come out ..

Maybe Howlands wife is paste.Whats her name, Lyla or something. I forget.

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Lots of canibalism in this last book. Lots of sacrifices in the last book. The moon was thin and sharp as a sickle (three times in the chapter), like a bronze one yielded by a white haired chick in the vision. There is way too much evidence here to dismiss the Joren was more probably than not made into the paste. His brooding; he is the one who needs to be afraid; he cannot run from his fate; his job was done getting Bran to BR (and then being served up for a greater purpose).

Bran seemed fine eating rat, because it tasted good. He almost retched with the first of the WW paste (that looked like blood veins, but it was probably just WW sap "he supposed"), but he really started to like it. Joren is like scotch, he is an aquired taste!

In terms of Meera, here is my relationship advice to Bran. Be honest and direct. "Meera, I ate your little brother. But, he was getting pretty depressed. Best thing for him really. On the plus side, he actually tasted pretty good. And now, guess what? I can make weir wood leaves rustle in a way that vaguely sounds like words so that people look at trees with troubled looks. Now, as Lenny K would ask, I just want to know if you are going to go my way, because before long I am going to be hooked up to one of these trees and mushrooms are going to be growing out of my head. What do you say?"

It is going to make the courtship of Meera a bit harder I would think.

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I'd imagine Jejen uploaded a good-bye video on "WeiTube" which Bran will eventually view over the "treenet". "(Jejen talking to the tree) Bran, if you are seeing this, you did it. *We* did it. Don't cry. Don't be hard on 3EC. I knew today is the day I die. Take care my sis (tears). Go save the world. Bye. (kill himself)".

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I'd imagine Jejen uploaded a good-bye video on "WeiTube" which Bran will eventually view over the "treenet". "(Jejen talking to the tree) Bran, if you are seeing this, you did it. *We* did it. Don't cry. Don't be hard on 3EC. I knew today is the day I die. Take care my sis (tears). Go save the world. Bye. (kill himself)".

Lol, what a morbidly interesting idea!

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Biter could always be a metaphor. My blood may not be bitter, but it might be biter if I were eating my friend and part of me knew it, even though I did not want to admit it.

Plus, the blood is not the only thing in there. When you suck your own blood (hope this isn't too regular a thing) do you have other weir wood ingredients in it?

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Hmm, the only way it could make sense to me, if for whatever reason the same blood needs to be shared between the trees and the greenseeer. Then Jojen could have been sacrificed and some of his blood mixed into the paste. I'm sure it's possible to conceive a reason why it might be necessary, but I think all the signs to imply anything like this are so random and disconnected that it feels more like a red herring to me.

Yes, the First Men made sacrifices to the 'Old Gods', which are apparently weirwood trees with the consciousness of greenseers in them. That doesn't mean they actually needed to - would such a tree need or want blood? sure, it might, but at this point I don't see a compelling reason to assume so. By the way, it's jolly good that trees can see and remember, but how much influence do they have on how things turn out? Might be that all those prayers and sacrifices are mostly pointless, unless one can actually hear what the trees answer. Most people claerly don't, but I'm just now re-reading the Bran chapter when he prays for Robb&co and Osha translates the whispering of the tree as the gods saying Robb's marching the wrong way. Not sure what to make of that - does Osha have some special talent, or can all wildlings understand the trees, or what? If it was Osha instead of Ned in Bran's first vision, would she actually have understood him?

Also, I find it hard to believe that Bran didn't taste the blood in the first spoonful of paste if it was there. And seeing a vision of some long ago sacrifice some time later, and tasting the blood then seems a bit random. It certainly creates the mood, but as far as in-Westeros factual evidence goes it's not terribly strong.

Also, it wouldn't be the first time Martin 'suggests' the death of some character only for him to turn up well and alive in the next book.

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I'm torn on the Jojen in the paste concept. I think the argument for him being in the paste is believable. However, with the numerous "today is the not the day I die" comments, I always favored the idea of Jojen dying on screen shortly after saying "today is the day I die." But of course, it would be foolish of me to expect the expected out of GRRM.

Regardless, I do think that Jojen's death, either learning of it or having it happen, will be the impetus for Bran to leave the cave. There is a conveniently available underground river (so they don't have to pass the wights or deal with weather) that probably runs all the way past the Wall (didn't they mention the river when they passed under the Wall? I definitely remember a river being under the Wall), and Bran is conveniently with a very capable Crannogperson (Meera).

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In ADWD Asha's chapter The Sacrifice, "Eight days ago, Asha had walked out with Aly Mormont to have a closer look at the [weirwood's] slitted red eyes and bloody mouth. It is only sap, she told herself, ....But her eyes were unconvinced; seeing was believing, and what they saw was frozen blood."

Maybe the cotf fed Jojen to Bran but I think they just fed him a paste of weirwood seeds, which have sap that is a lot like human blood. I think Jojen will die in the caves or maybe he and his sister will leave the caves to try and make it home but poor Jojen ain't strong enough to make it.

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Weirwoods have been described as having red sap or bloodlike sap since Game of Thrones. Just throwing that out there.

Exactly my thought. And weirwoods are said to keep growing forever, as long as they are not cut down. It's worth considering that they feed on the dead in some manner -- human dead or the dead of the CotF. Or perhaps they actually have blood coursing through them.

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