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Jojen Reed's fate? (ADWD Spoilers)


starkloyalist

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Theon hears crying through the weirwood after the last Bran Chapter.

A weirwood dripped a wet warm salty tear on Bran and company as they are heading North.

Yeah, of all the creepy parts of the Nightfort, the warm salty tear was what creeped me out the most. I don't think it foreshadowed anything good.

I won't be surprised if every Weirwood tree with a face had someone in it's roots a'la Bloodraven. The scene where Sandor fights Dondarrion is in a cave under a weirwood and the imagery there is of him sitting in its roots. The Cave could fit a lot of people so it may once have housed TCotF.

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There is no concrete evidence to say Jojen is in the paste; however, I think it's odd how so many people dismiss the theory as not possible.

There are enough clues pointing to Jojen dying off screen to make it something worth considering:

We know he's going to die soon.

The day Bran eats paste is the only day Jojen doesn't say "this is not the day I die."

Meera knows Jojen's death is going to happen soon, and wants to take him home, because she knows he'll be safe at home.

I think he must have seen that he's going to die North of the Wall, which is why he wants to go home, but won't even try it.

"The moon was thin and sharp as a knife."

Jojen wouldn't eat acorn paste earlier on, saying it would only make him sicker, even though he was literally starving his body to death.

"the gift is in the blood"

the paste looks like it has blood in it

Bran "could taste the blood" after viewing the Northman's execution/sacrifice

Meera ran off when the Children came to get Bran

Jojen went to the front of the cave to sit a stare out mournfully - last we saw him.

Jojen has served his purpose, and there is nothing further he can offer to the story arc.

Jojen believes he made a mistake and should never have come.

Jojen and Meera were looking for a way out of the cave when they explored the river.

Cannibalism is a reoccurring theme in the book

Bran wakes and Jojen and Meera are nowhere to be found.

Theon hears crying through the weirwood after the last Bran Chapter.

A weirwood dripped a wet warm salty tear on Bran and company as they are heading North

We have no reason to trust that Bloodraven is doing anything for the good of Jojen, Meera, or even Bran.

When Varamyr dies his soul passes children riding on an elk, right before coming on the Wights with the blue eyes that look at him. (they could be the reeds, or they could be children of the forest controlling the Wights)

One of the Children carries around a black knife - perfect for Jojen Stabbing.

This wouldn't be the first time GRRM would have killed a character off screen, and there isn't anything to say we won't see what happened in the next book.

Hodor is armed and ready to smack down some children and allow Bran and Meera to get out, we have NO reason to believe that either of them are dying anytime soon.

The Children may be against the Others, or for them, but one thing we know is that they are very alien, and we should assume they look at sacrifice and cannibalism the same way as humans.

Another point of interest: In the last Bran chapter, when he's afraid he will have to die, Jojen states: "He is not the one who needs to be afraid." This strongly implies that some one other than Bran needs to be afraid, possibly of death. My guess is Jojen, I think it fits in with the rest.

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There are definitely hints that Jojen has been made into the paste but it seems really odd to me that Bloodraven and the children of the forest would do something that they must know would turn Bran against them; I can't see Bran being happy to work with the people who killed his friend and tricked him into eating him! Basically they've powered him up and simultaneously made him their enemy, it doesn't seem like a smart move.

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There are definitely hints that Jojen has been made into the paste but it seems really odd to me that Bloodraven and the children of the forest would do something that they must know would turn Bran against them; I can't see Bran being happy to work with the people who killed his friend and tricked him into eating him! Basically they've powered him up and simultaneously made him their enemy, it doesn't seem like a smart move.

He may be quite upset at first, but what is he going to do about it? He's a crippled boy and a very novice greenseer, Plus for the most he part cares more about his own wants and needs than those of his party members. Not saying he is bad or evil, just saying he's a 9 yo kid from a wealthy and powerful family that has usually gotten what he wanted and is a bit used to it. He'd get over Jojen being dead and eaten.

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I don't find this theory plausible. Everything in Bran's chapters is creepy and points to something bad happening, but nummy Jojen paste is not one of them. The weirwoods have been described as having red sap since the first book, in Catelyns first chapter,so the Children feeding Bran a magical paste made out of weirwood seeds and sap is a very good explanation for the unsettling red veins in said paste. Since that is essentially the only reason why people think the paste contains Jojen's blood, I find this theory hard to swallow.

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I don't find this theory plausible. Everything in Bran's chapters is creepy and points to something bad happening, but nummy Jojen paste is not one of them. The weirwoods have been described as having red sap since the first book, in Catelyns first chapter,so the Children feeding Bran a magical paste made out of weirwood seeds and sap is a very good explanation for the unsettling red veins in said paste. Since that is essentially the only reason why people think the paste contains Jojen's blood, I find this theory hard to swallow.

Yes, they have been describing the sap in that way since the first book. What if weirwood sap is actually blood? How would that change your opinion?

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Yes, they have been describing the sap in that way since the first book. What if weirwood sap is actually blood? How would that change your opinion?

It wouldn't change. The weirwoods have always been described as disturbingly human, to the point where their leaves actually resemble human hands. Finding out that they may also have people permanently bonded to them is creepy as hell, but actually fits with the information we've been given. I don't know how Jojen or Meera will die but GRRM has spent so much time building up the characters and their relationships with Bran that it's difficult for me to think that he's died offscreen, for something that has never been mentioned or even alluded to before.

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It wouldn't change. The weirwoods have always been described as disturbingly human, to the point where their leaves actually resemble human hands. Finding out that they may also have people permanently bonded to them is creepy as hell, but actually fits with the information we've been given. I don't know how Jojen or Meera will die but GRRM has spent so much time building up the characters and their relationships with Bran that it's difficult for me to think that he's died offscreen, for something that has never been mentioned or even alluded to before.

Well, it was alluded to quite a bit in some people's opinions, and he may not die offscreen, I'm sure we will get some sort of description if it did happen. The Reeds in all honestly are far from the most fleshed characters in the books, in fact we know very little about them at all. If you agree that the sap might be blood, where does that blood come from? Most likely a human sacrifice or something similar.

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Why would they need to sacrifice someone for a little bit of blood in a bowl?

In the context I am talking about weirwood sap being in reality blood, not referring to cup O Jojen. Plus I think the power is in the sacrifice, not just the blood. Reminiscent of the conversation Melisandre and Stannis have on Dragonstone about Edric Storm's sacrifice vs. leaching him.

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Plus I think the power is in the sacrifice, not just the blood. Reminiscent of the conversation Melisandre and Stannis have on Dragonstone about Edric Storm's sacrifice vs. leaching him.

The power is in the blood. King's blood has power, so it was down to burning a leech with some of his blood in it, vs burning him entirely.

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The power is in the blood. King's blood has power, so it was down to burning a leech with some of his blood in it, vs burning him entirely.

Yes, exactly, there is more power in taking the life and using the blood rather than just leaching him. She was afraid leaching him would not work as intended, but that burning him alive along with all his blood and everything else would most assuredly work. baffledchump wrote an excellent post which holds many of the same views I have on the matter.

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Jojen is technically a guest. Do cotf observe guestright?

Oooooh.

Guest right is a law of the Old Gods (and the new). The Children follow the Old Gods. Guest right should apply here.

Is it breaking guest right if you try to sacrifice your guest? What if the guest is okay with it (or at least, doesn't try to stop you)?

Guest right is probably the strongest argument I've yet seen against the "Jojen's in the paste" theory.

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Guest right is probably the strongest argument I've yet seen against the "Jojen's in the paste" theory.

Totally agree with that and would like to add Jojens remarks from ADWD (US Harcover- pg449):

"It is given to a few to drink of that green fountain whilst still in mortal flesh, to hear the whisperings of the leaves and see as the trees see , as the gods see", said Jojen. Most are not so blessed. The gods gave me only greendreams. My task was to get you here. My part in this is done."

Jojen knows from his greendreams when he and I think how he will die. If he needed to die or be sacrificed to further Brans abilities then his "task" would not be complete until then. Yet, above he himself says his part is done.

Jojen paste is off the table for me.

As a side note-- Brans chapters with COTF were eerie and reminded me of Ygritte and her stories about Gendels children . Anyone else get that?

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Just wrote a load up on this subject HERE, check it out if you got a minute.

Thank you for this analysis, very nicely put, I think you have it right. Reading the chapters in the cave I got the sense of a buildup to doom - and went back to a similar build-up, the chapter of the events at the Red Wedding. The way GRRM uses repetition of in that case sound made my skin crawl and awaiting something evil. I had the same feeling in the chapter in ADWD in the cave, the subtle hints I thought were fed (the bones, Jojen's attitude, Meera's nervousness, the associations with sacrifice and the moon). Well, we'll have to wait and see till the next book is out to know what happened, but if this was another use of GRRM's build-up technique for doom it definitely worked for me.

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