HaraktheHirsute Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Hi all, new to this board.A couple of things I've been thinking about:1) Rickard Karstark wanted vengeance against Jaime Lannister for killing his sons in battle. Why? It was a battle. Unless there is some detail I am forgetting.2) Tywin wants Tyrion to beget an heir by Sansa Stark so that Lannister will inherit Winterfell. Why? Winterfell has burned down. All the male Starks are either dead, too young or thought dead. Why couldn't the Lannisters simply take it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Hi all, new to this board. A couple of things I've been thinking about: 1) Rickard Karstark wanted vengeance against Jaime Lannister for killing his sons in battle. Why? It was a battle. Unless there is some detail I am forgetting. 2) Tywin wants Tyrion to beget an heir by Sansa Stark so that Lannister will inherit Winterfell. Why? Winterfell has burned down. All the male Starks are either dead, too young or thought dead. Why couldn't the Lannisters simply take it? 1) They're still dead. Not many fathers sit back and merrily accept the death of their children whether it was in battle or not. I'm sure there's more to it than that though. 2) Winterfell has been burned, but it's not burned down. The Lannisters can't just simply take it and be able to hold it. However, if the rightful heir has a child then they will hold it rightfully. There's a lot of political nuance in play with these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaraktheHirsute Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 Thanks for the responses, Tammy. In regards to Karstark, I get that he's grieving but why should he regard Jaime as a villain for killing in battle? It's not like he stole into their rooms and killed them in their sleep. Also, if someone else killed his sons, would his need for vengeance be as great? In regards to Winterfell, I'd expect political protocol from the average House, but not from the Lannisters. It's a little odd that Tywin, the Hand of King Joffrey, would want to be proper about it, especially after the "Red Wedding." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaraktheHirsute Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 Incidentally, I misread the forum description and I'm not yet sure how to apply Spoiler tags so, if the mods feel that some of this post needs them, please feel free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Ready Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I think the Winterfell thing is much more about the power of consolidating major houses, rather than just occupation of a building or region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaraktheHirsute Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 Arya, perhaps, but why would the Lannisters care about upholding the Stark line? They're nearly extinct as far as they know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Thanks for the responses, Tammy. In regards to Karstark, I get that he's grieving but why should he regard Jaime as a villain for killing in battle? It's not like he stole into their rooms and killed them in their sleep. Also, if someone else killed his sons, would his need for vengeance be as great? In regards to Winterfell, I'd expect political protocol from the average House, but not from the Lannisters. It's a little odd that Tywin, the Hand of King Joffrey, would want to be proper about it, especially after the "Red Wedding." I think part of it is that the whole war began badly. The Lannisters are seen as basically starting this, Jaime Lannister is already not held in high regard, and IIRC correctly they were his last sons. I could be wrong on that, but sometimes anger and a desire for vengeance doesn't necessarily have a rational starting point. The Lannisters have to be careful because it's the north and the Starks are one of the oldest families. The Starks are well-respected in the north and have been Lords there for centuries so it's not as simple as say taking Harrenhall or some other lower house. The Lannisters know that the north isn't just going to accept a Lannister because a Lannister puts up their flag and lays claim to it. If it were that easy, he'd just have Tommen stamp a decree, but he knows things in the north are tricky and as long as there's a legitimate Stark walking around the north will always be trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King in the Centre Bit Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 With your second question,, as has already been touched upon, the Starks aren't just any old family. Essentially they ARE the North. They have been liege lords and Warden of the North since the conquest and before that they were the kings in the North for centuries. I think I'm right in thinking they are the oldest of the 7 great houses to hold their seat unbroken. It isn't just a case of walking in and taking it or you'd have an uprising (albeit probably not a very successful one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaraktheHirsute Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 King, yeah, probably wouldn't be very successful. Plus, the North is in disarray, with the ironmen vying for conquest and the Karstarks estranged from the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silmarien Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Hi all, new to this board. A couple of things I've been thinking about: 1) Rickard Karstark wanted vengeance against Jaime Lannister for killing his sons in battle. Why? It was a battle. Unless there is some detail I am forgetting. 2) Tywin wants Tyrion to beget an heir by Sansa Stark so that Lannister will inherit Winterfell. Why? Winterfell has burned down. All the male Starks are either dead, too young or thought dead. Why couldn't the Lannisters simply take it? 1) I think the fact of losing all three of his sons and heirs (slain by Jaime), in his grief, drove him to desperation and him seeking bloody vengeance. It was battle, but even in war, losing all your sons is a devastating thing. It's difficult enough in those times - many children born never lived to see their 5th year, due to diseases, ill fortune, etc. To lose three grown sons was a travesty. 2) The Lannisters recognize that The North will never accept a Warden with no ties to the Starks. With Bran and Rickon believed dead, Sansa was believed to be the heir to Winterfell (girls inherit after their trueborn brothers). If Tyrion and Sansa returned to Winterfell, Tyrion would take the name "Lord Stark" and Sansa would be "Lady Stark". Their children would be heirs to Winterfell and also bear the Stark name. The name "Stark" carries much weight to Northerners, so any Warden would have to have a Stark connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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