King in the Centre Bit Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 So, this is the only thing in the entire book that has left me slightly annoyed. The epilogue, I just don't get it and it's for two main reasons:A) Can Thoros the Red Priest now resurrect anyone and anybody? Seems like a bit of a cop out to me.B)What is the point of resurrecting Catelyn? She can't speak and is too rotten to walk without a cowl. Surely it isn't to just confirm the identity of a few Freys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changeling Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 A )It is not Thoros who does the resurrecting. It is Rh'llor(sp) so in theory yes, he can resurect anyone but not who he picks. It must be the God of Light who decides. B )I do not know if Cat has any part in the remaining 2 books but I feel it is more then just to identify some freys. I think she will have something more to do then that. It would make sence that he brought her back to assure the Lannisters(if she knows they were behind it) and Freys get what they deserve. I feel she is back for nothing but REVENGE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SummerGhostofNymeria Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I agree with the previous post. Thoros can resurrect anyone, but only because R'hllor decides to resurrect them. I think it was perhaps just chance. If I remember right, the first time that Beric Dondarrion was resurrected it was merely by chance during a ritual Thoros was performing for the dead performed by those who follow the Lord of Light. So, there's a chance that the same thing happened and during that tradition she happened to come right back to life.Catelyn would have to have some form of unfinished business to come back. I have a feeling we're definitely not done seeing the last of her, even while she can't speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joffrey Lannister Squared Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 The way I see it is that she wasn't dead in the first place, they just said that they resurrected her. Although, I think that may be due to something I read in AFFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Ready Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 If we're assuming that these people are brought back by R'hllor, it would seem the decision would be made on whether the dead person's cause was just. In Beric's case, the outlaws seem to be of the good guy type (or near as makes no difference), fighting in some small way against the really bad bad guys. In Catelyn's case, she's helping bring retribution for the Hospitality faux pas. As they say, these people are merely instruments of the Lord of Light's will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SummerGhostofNymeria Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I guess, assuming it's R'hllor's doing, it's not for anyone else to decide whether it's a just cause, or whether it's ridiculous nonsense, but the Lord of Light. However, technically, Robb and Cat (and the rest of their party really) were guarded under the right of guests. So, perhaps this is R'hllor's way of saying it's fair to claim justice for those who were wronged there? I don't know... I'm going to assume that's the basic reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Catelyn may have some role to play in the future of the story, but I think her resurrection may be simply to set a precedence, for when GRRM does it again with other characters at future points in the story. So regardless of what R'hllor thinks is a justifiable reason to resurrect someone (if R'hllor is real at all), you also have to look at it from the point of view of why GRRM needs it to happen for him to tell this story. Considering GRRM thinks Gandalf should have stayed dead after the Balrog fight, I have to wonder why he considers resurrection of characters so necessary that he would do it multiple times. It probably has to do with the ultimate fight against the Others. Maybe resurrected characters will be ignored by the Others when they come swarming south trying to kill everyone else? If Robb hadn't had his head cut off, no doubt he would have been resurrected too. But GRRM didn't do that because he needed the North set back by his death and weakened by civil war between three sides (Dreadfort, Ironborn, Stark-loyalists). So Robb had to stay dead, while Catelyn could come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SummerGhostofNymeria Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Catelyn may have some role to play in the future of the story, but I think her resurrection may be simply to set a precedence, for when GRRM does it again with other characters at future points in the story. So regardless of what R'hllor thinks is a justifiable reason to resurrect someone (if R'hllor is real at all), you also have to look at it from the point of view of why GRRM needs it to happen for him to tell this story. Considering GRRM thinks Gandalf should have stayed dead after the Balrog fight, I have to wonder why he considers resurrection of characters so necessary that he would do it multiple times. It probably has to do with the ultimate fight against the Others. Maybe resurrected characters will be ignored by the Others when they come swarming south trying to kill everyone else? If Robb hadn't had his head cut off, no doubt he would have been resurrected too. But GRRM didn't do that because he needed the North set back by his death and weakened by civil war between three sides (Dreadfort, Ironborn, Stark-loyalists). So Robb had to stay dead, while Catelyn could come back. I do see it that way. Part of the reason why I love these books so much is for the simple fact that almost everything that happens in these books happens for a reason, and builds up towards another event. In other words, for the most part, things do not happen in this book that are completely useless. I'm sure there will be a use for those resurrected, whether big or small, at some point in time, and I'm curious as to how that will come about. By the way, I laughed at your "if R'hllor is real at all" statement because it's so true for all of the different religions, but this one in particular (for me anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaraktheHirsute Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 The way I see it is that she wasn't dead in the first place, they just said that they resurrected her. Although, I think that may be due to something I read in AFFC. Doesn't seem too likely after her throat was slit and she was left in the river for a few days. I don't remember AFFC too well, but I'm rereading it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SummerGhostofNymeria Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 The way I see it is that she wasn't dead in the first place, they just said that they resurrected her. Although, I think that may be due to something I read in AFFC. Doesn't seem too likely after her throat was slit and she was left in the river for a few days. I don't remember AFFC too well, but I'm rereading it now. Nymeria saw her dead in the river in ASoS so I don't see how it's possible that she wasn't dead. Plus, how could she live if her throat was slit? I don't see the possibility. I would say she had to have been resurrected. I'm with Harak on this one. I'm also reading AFfC right now, but for me it's the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaraktheHirsute Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Lucky you. You don't have to wait 6 years for the next book. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark@heart Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 What do you think? Will Martin have some kind of reunion between UnCat and one or both of her daughters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SummerGhostofNymeria Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Lucky you. You don't have to wait 6 years for the next book. :) Don't worry, he can't take 6 years for the next book because of the show. =) So, you may still have to wait a while, but I don't think he has the chance to make it last quite that long. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaraktheHirsute Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 What do you think? Will Martin have some kind of reunion between UnCat and one or both of her daughters? That would be interesting. Would they even recognize her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaraktheHirsute Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Don't worry, he can't take 6 years for the next book because of the show. =) So, you may still have to wait a while, but I don't think he has the chance to make it last quite that long. :) Gods, I hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SummerGhostofNymeria Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Gods, I hope not.I will hope for you too. I don't want to wait very long either, and seeing as I'm on AFfC now I don't have too much left to go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan of Rosby Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 That would be interesting. Would they even recognize her? Would she even recognise them? She might not meet them until they are fully grown and Lord Beric says he loses more of his memory each time he is resurrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaraktheHirsute Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 She did recognize Merrett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan of Rosby Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 She did recognize Merrett.That is true. However, she has had to endure the deaths of her husband, father and eldest son, not to mention the supposed deaths of Bran and Rickon. She might be in complete despair about her family and have a hard time believing any of them could be alive, even Arya and Sansa. I know my mental state would be in complete disarray if I had to witness my eldest son being slaughtered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaraktheHirsute Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I know my mental state would be in complete disarray if I had to witness my eldest son being slaughtered.And, of course, if you yourself were murdered, left to putrefy in a river, then somehow brought back to life . ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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