[twow Spoilers] Arianne II, Part 2

[Im no Ser]

WHAT?!!!I Can someone pls tell me where I can find hints that Aeron was molested by Euron.

Here's my take on it, in a thread on the subject:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/61332-aeron-greyjoy-molested/#entry2942185

[Fire Eater]

I think Connington's battle with the Tyrell force marching towards Storm's End is going to resemble Hannibal's victory at the Battle of Lake Trasimene. Connington is going to have his men waiting in the hills concealed by the trees somewhere along the Kingsroad next to a body of water, an unheard of lake or the Wendwater River. He then ambushes the the Tyrell force in a surprise attack; he attacks from three sides, blocking off an escape route and pushing them into the water.

Finally, to complete the reference, Hannibal had elephants and Connington has elephants.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Fire Eater

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

What intrigues me is who is leading the Tyrell army. If its Randyll Tarly (as I suspect) Aegon and Connington have the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. If Connington is victorious and Lord Randyll survives, they have both one of the enemies key generals and also a valuable ally if they are able to turn him.

In addition, I think Lord Mathis Rowan (who left with Mace Tyrell for Storm's End) was still commanding the Tyrell force investing Storm's End. I wonder if he was captured in the taking of Storm's End. If so, Aegon is in prime position to knock out or flip House Tyrell.

[Lord Tywin's Privy]

Those drawings seem to be just one of the elements GRRM adds do the story to let us know a little more about the culture and history of Westeros.The Children of the Forest know that their time in Westeros is running out,as it's explained in aDwD when they are compared to giant wolves and lions.I think that right now the Children just wish to leave the Weirwoods,Bran and Bloodraven as their legacy in this world.

How would bloodraven and bran be their "legacy"? i have so many questions about bloodraven aka brynden rivers and his part in the history of the past hundred years of westeros, ending with why Egg sent him to the Wall, how he became LC, and HOW in the world did he end up where he is now??? LCs serve for life-- did the CoTF see something in him and penetrate his dreams like he did with Bran? What is he preparing bran for and why him? why brynden rivers, bastard of Aegon the Unworthy? why is he in the frostfangs living --seemingly eternally-- as half man/half weirwood??

any ideas on this?

[Lord Tywin's Privy]

I think you are mixing up the Arianne chapter with the Victarion chapter.There is no video or transcript for the Arianne chapter.

Has a Victarion chapter from TWoW been released? I thought it was just the Theon and the Arianne II chapters so far??

[CrypticWeirwood]

How would bloodraven and bran be their "legacy"? i have so many questions about bloodraven aka brynden rivers and his part in the history of the past hundred years of westeros, ending with why Egg sent him to the Wall, how he became LC, and HOW in the world did he end up where he is now??? LCs serve for life-- did the CoTF see something in him and penetrate his dreams like he did with Bran? What is he preparing bran for and why him? why brynden rivers, bastard of Aegon the Unworthy? why is he in the frostfangs living --seemingly eternally-- as half man/half weirwood?? any ideas on this?

Good questions there. Another is how Maester Aemon somehow misplaced his grand-uncle the Lord Commander, and why there is nowhere any mention of him. It wasn’t infinitely long ago, and the Watch remembers its Lords Commander. Did Lord Brynden use sorcery to cloud mens’ minds so that after he left, he would be forgotten? Would he really have done this to his own kin, with whom he was presumably on good terms, or did Aemon himself decide to keep mum?

Lastly, as for being half-man and half-weirwood, remember that a weirwood is already half-man. Think of how were- is the part of a werewolf or werebear (etc) that refers to a man (Old English had wer). This seems the most likely meaning of a weirwood: it’s a werewood, or man-tree, using one of Martin’s characteristic respellings.

I wouldn’t look at the old word weir as a dam or dike, sieve or fence here, unless Martin were intentionally punning both weir and were-. After all, weirwoods have faces; they’re blends of the spirits of men and trees. Well, insofar as the Children of the Forest are men, which they aren’t, but still.

Edited April 17, 2012 by CrypticWeirwood

[Lord Tywin's Privy]

Good questions there. Another is how Maester Aemon somehow misplaced his grand-uncle the Lord Commander, and why there is nowhere any mention of him. It wasn’t infinitely long ago, and the Watch remembers its Lords Commander. Did Lord Brynden use sorcery to cloud mens’ minds so that after he left, he would be forgotten? Would he really have done this to his own kin, with whom he was presumably on good terms, or did Aemon himself decide to keep mum?

Lastly, as for being half-man and half-weirwood, remember that a weirwood is already half-man. Think of how were- is the part of a werewolf or werebear (etc) that refers to a man (Old English had wer). This seems the most likely meaning of a weirwood: it’s a werewood, or man-tree, using one of Martin’s characteristic respellings.

I wouldn’t look at the old word weir as a dam or dike, sieve or fence here, unless Martin were intentionally punning both weir and were-. After all, weirwoods have faces; they’re blends of the spirits of men and trees. Well, insofar as the Children of the Forest are men, which they aren’t, but still.

Good points, both with weirwoods being "man-trees," and more in the direction i was going, how aemon could have "misplaced" his great-uncle-- thats another great question in this whole part of the story, ie brynden rivers, maester aemon, bran and the CotF.

I wonder whether the answers will come first through the Dunk and Egg stories-- sort of explaining some of the history between brynden rivers and princes maekar, aegon the unlikely, etc; did the archmeasters really force aemon to the wall or was it his choice, because from what he says (which admittedly isnt much) he went to the wall willingly). But the questions which pertain more to this thread and the mention of new weirwoods south of the neck, the COTF, and bran's training by bloodraven... anything about this in Targ prophecy?? bloodraven is half Targ so, it would be odd if his role in this wasn't mentioned at least peripherally in the prophecies.

And great catch, by the way, CrypticWeirwood, on why Maester Aemon wouldnt have ever mentioned the fate of his uncle, whether he believed him dead or knew the truth. And why, in LC Mormont's speech to Jon Snow about Aemon in AGOT, where he talks all about the meeting of the small council after Aerion Brightflame, and how Aemon chose a life of service when he copulve been king...basically when Mormont goes through the Targ history of the past 80 yrs or so, and we first find out that Aemon is a Targ, why doesnt LC Mormont ever mention LC Brynden Rivers, and how he came to the Wall WITH measter aemon?? Seeing as Mormont does give a very detailed historical account, and seeing as Bloodraven couldnt have been more than a few LCs before him and a previous Hand to the King, why didnt Mormont include that in his little history lesson to Jon?

So many questions! that's just the tip of the iceberg! and that iceberg is only one of many!!

[Ran]

Another is how Maester Aemon somehow misplaced his grand-uncle the Lord Commander, and why there is nowhere any mention of him.

Aemon is the one who tells us he became Lord Commander, and that he was sent to the Wall... Don't think he misplaced him.

And other than a couple of the oldest rangers and Aemon, none of them served -- and most weren't even alive -- when Brynden was Lord Commander.

One assumes we'll eventually learn that he disappeared one night or that he insisted on going on a ranging and never returned, or what have you.

[Lord Tywin's Privy]

Maybe Aemon was sworn not to speak of his great-uncle Bloodraven's fate; just as Coldhands swore Sam to keep the fact that Bran is alive and going to see Bloodraven a secret. Besides some oath to secrecy I can see no other way that Aemon could not have known what became of Bloodraven.

From AFFC: (Maester Aemon talking to Sam and Dareon on the boat from Eastwatch)

"When last I passed this way I was five-and-thirty and had been a maester of the chain for sixteen years. Egg wanted me to help him rule, but I knew my place was here. He sent me north aboard the Golden Dragon, and insisted that his friend Ser Duncan see me safe to Eastwatch. No recruit had arrived at the Wall with so much pomp since Nymeria sent the Watch six kings in golden fetters (??). Egg emptied out the dungeons too, so I would not have to say my vows alone. My honor gaurd, he called them. One was no less a man than Brynden Rivers. Later he was chosen Lord Commander."

"Bloodraven." said Dareon. "I know a song about him. 'A Thousand Eyes, and One,' it's called. But I thought he lived a hundred years ago."

"We all did. Once I was as young as you."

[Lord Tywin's Privy]

Aemon is the one who tells us he became Lord Commander, and that he was sent to the Wall... Don't think he misplaced him.

And other than a couple of the oldest rangers and Aemon, none of them served -- and most weren't even alive -- when Brynden was Lord Commander.

How do you know how long brynden rivers served as LC? IIRC the book only mentions one LC who served directly before Mormont, and how long did Mormont serve? 10 years? 15? How can you say how many brothers of the NW knew Bloodraven when he was LC?

In any case, my point wasn't that-- it wasn't a point actually, so much as a question: Why doesn't Jeor Mormont mention Brynden Rivers-- even in passing-- when he is breaking down the history of the recent Targaryen kings and small councils and Aemon being considered as ruler of the seven kingdoms when he speaks to Jon?

He speaks of everything else besides Bloodraven--obviously he wouldve known that bloodraven was (relatively recently) Lord Commander, and since Aemon says that his arrival with Bloodraven was the most celebrated arrival seen at the wall in centuries, mormont and all the other black brothers with enough years in the NW to hear a few stories in the mess hall, wouldve heard not just about Aemon but about Bloodraven-- Hand of the King, sent to the Wall, later chosen Lord Commander-- as well.

One assumes we'll eventually learn that he disappeared one night or that he insisted on going on a ranging and never returned, or what have you.

[Lord Tywin's Privy]

MY BAD!! This is what i meant to post, but it got all caught up in Ran's previous post, instead of quoting it and responding to it. Here it is:

How do you know how long brynden rivers served as LC? IIRC the book only mentions one LC who served directly before Mormont, and how long did Mormont serve? 10 years? 15? How can you say how many brothers of the NW knew Bloodraven when he was LC?

In any case, my point wasn't that-- it wasn't a point actually, so much as a question: Why doesn't Jeor Mormont mention Brynden Rivers-- even in passing-- when he is breaking down the history of the recent Targaryen kings and small councils and Aemon being considered as ruler of the seven kingdoms when he speaks to Jon?

He speaks of everything else besides Bloodraven--obviously he wouldve known that bloodraven was (relatively recently) Lord Commander, and since Aemon says that his arrival with Bloodraven was the most celebrated arrival seen at the wall in centuries, mormont and all the other black brothers with enough years in the NW to hear a few stories in the mess hall, wouldve heard not just about Aemon but about Bloodraven-- Hand of the King, sent to the Wall, later chosen Lord Commander-- as well.

[Lord Tywin's Privy]

We know that Aemon was 35 when he arrived at the Wall, and 102 yrs old when he left, so he had been at Castle Black for about 67 years. which means that Bloodraven arrived there 67 yrs ago. Assuming it took him some years to be chosen as LC (not everyone ascends as quickly as Jon Snow did, after all) it was probably anywhere from 50 to 60 years ago that Bloodraven was chosen to be LC. Now, since he is still not dead, no one can yet say how long he served as LC, unless someone knows exactly how long Jeor Mormont and the LC before him served. Say he served for 20 years--a completely random number--that would mean that anyone who had been at the wall for 30 years, meaning not a lot, but a decent amount of people, would have served under him in his time as LC.

I dont know if any more of the timeline for this will be revealed in the upcoming books, but even if it isnt, i'm surprised that Bloodraven is NEVER mentioned by any of the brothers of the NW --not that theyre overly fond of history--but still, you would think that Sam Tarly or someone wouldve read about it seeing as it wasnt all that long ago.

Again though, it is the absence of any mention of Brynden Rivers in Mormont's history lesson to Jon concerning bloodraven's nephew that surprises me most.

[Bran Vras]

The predecessor of Jorah Mormont, Lord Qorgyle, has spent much time at the Wall since he was there before Denys Mallister who has spent more than thirty years at the Shadow Tower. It's not known how much time he spent as Lord Commander though. Probably not that long since Mallister entered the election for the command of the Watch against Qorgyle.

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

I think it would be interesting if Aegon married Arianne which pretty much means that their "alliance" with the Lannister-Tyrells is over. That would put Nym in a very bad position, although Dorne still holds Myrcella. Another thing that I could see happening is that in the case that Myrcella dies there could be a small possibility that Sansa ends up betrothed to Trystane. This is obviously highly unlikely and a lot of people need to die, alliances to end, and other things need to happen for this to happen. I just propose this because it would be very interesting to see Sansa and "fake Arya" with different kings which for Sansa would be super emotional, her only sister and she's forced to stand against her. The only reason that I don't like this is the fact that this already happened at the beginning of the Wot5K plus the fact that it's really unlikely she ends up in Dorne just because of all that is planned for her and Trystane already

[the Scorpion Knight]

I think lady nym will hear rumours about ser Robert strong and moves dirctly to storm's end with myrcella or yields to the GC

[Magjee]

Off topic, but I wonder if the Damphair chapter confirms the speculation that he was molested by Euron as a child. Yikes.

WHAT?!

Oh man, I might need to re-read a few things.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Hello Everyone!!! New member here! Based on when this series first came out I'm a new fan I guess one would say. I watched the first episode of Season 1 on HBO and I was hooked IMMEDIATELY. I had to learn more about this world.

I seriously think George R R Martin is one of the greatest authors of all time and his creativity is just amazing. I just hope he doesn't end up like George Lucas (another person who gave me a world that I loved to explore).

Anyways i love Arianne and I love Dorne in general and House Martell. I was sad and yet not surprised by what happened to Quentyn at the end of ADWD. I really wonder how Doran Martell is going to handle the news? Moving on the reading of the Arianne chapter I'm very intrigued by it. Doran Martell is a very cautious man so it wouldn't surprise me if he harbors doubts about Aegon.

Apparently GRRM read a Tyrion chapter at Eastercon...? Does anyone have a link to a summary of that reading?

Waiting for The Winds Of Winter is going to be incredibly hard.... :frown5:

EDIT: I wonder why the hell one of the younger Sand Snakes (Elia) is accompanying Arianne on this mission? And shes only 14 according to the Red Viper's paramour (her mother Ellaria Sand). Anyone else find that kinda weird?

Edited April 30, 2012 by ThePrinceOfSunspear

[SeanF]

I think it would be interesting if Aegon married Arianne which pretty much means that their "alliance" with the Lannister-Tyrells is over. That would put Nym in a very bad position, although Dorne still holds Myrcella. Another thing that I could see happening is that in the case that Myrcella dies there could be a small possibility that Sansa ends up betrothed to Trystane. This is obviously highly unlikely and a lot of people need to die, alliances to end, and other things need to happen for this to happen. I just propose this because it would be very interesting to see Sansa and "fake Arya" with different kings which for Sansa would be super emotional, her only sister and she's forced to stand against her. The only reason that I don't like this is the fact that this already happened at the beginning of the Wot5K plus the fact that it's really unlikely she ends up in Dorne just because of all that is planned for her and Trystane already

I imagine that if Doran does decide to throw in his lot with Aegon, he'll give Nymeria plenty of warning.

[Dornish Bannerman]

I think it highly likely that we now will see Arianne marry Aegon. There are only two books left and now is the time to see some Martell action. If Connington should take out the Tyrells coming southward to Storm's End, and has got Mathis Rowan, as suggested earlier, the Tyrell will be very weak from then. Loosing both Rowan and Tarly, if he is leading the assault, and maybe even the Redwyne Fleet against Crow's Eye would mean the destruction of their House. As hinted and said in ADwD the Reach were loyal to the Targaryens for a long time and many of them are still waiting for a Targaryen to come back. With fifty thousand spears of Dorne adding to the ten thousand Golden Company and various Reach lords would make their numbers almost equal to those of Renly when he marched on King's Landing.

So finally Doran has the perfect oppurtunity to revenge Elia and Rhaenys, as well as Oberyn. So Martell alliace with Aegon IV rules the east, and the ironmen will probably take the western part of the Seven Kingdoms (Lannisport, Casterly Rock, Highgarden.) Stannis takes the north with the help of Rickon Stark and twenty thousand sellswords from across the narrow sea. Littlefinger decides he sides the Vale will side with Stannis, maybe only because Varys is a Targaryen loyalist, and the three armies clash at the Trident.

The perfect ending for this series would be something akin to that above. I also imagine them all with a dragon each, maybe Dany arrives with Victarion and Jhaqo in the north to side with Jon and Stannis, making Dany and Jon King and Queen in the North and Stannis their Hand, with Drogon. When Victarion sounds the hellhorn, the dragon flies to Euron, as he is the owner of the horn, maybe that will be Viserion. And Aegon, being a dragon himself, takes control of Rhaegal if he turnes up.

This is how I'd end it... (Sorry for going off-topic)

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

I honestly don't want the series to end but I feel like somewhere down the line GRRM will extend it and make 1 or 2 more books. Theres just ssoooo much that can be explored and like you said the Martells really haven't had much action up till now.

I want to see them take part in the war and how they interact with the rest of the cast.