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[twow Spoilers] Arianne II, Part 2


Angalin
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That and the fact that Joffrey was a direct result of it.

Yeap... if it wasnt treason in the royal family, and the new king was the direct result of it, the incest alone,I think nobody would make a big deal about it...

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I think Dorne is going to end up as the space for the last battle with the Others. Dorne has been the last stand in the history of Westeros on numerous occasions, so why not again, this time against the Others (especially with all of the hinting with the caves, the COTF, and the weirwoods.) We know the COTF used the Arm of Dorne as a last stand against the First Men and that Dorne evaded capture by Aegon the Conqueror. I think we've seen so little of Dorne in respect to the other areas of Westeros because it's going to be so important in the end. If Westeros has to fight off this otherworldly invasion from the North the people would flee "As far South as South goes." I don't think it's an accident that we've been shown Arianne viewing remembrances of the COTF and their last stand with the First Men. It's just another reminder that Dorne is where it all ends for Westeros.

This chapter also puts into perspective how important Arianne's opinion of Aegon will be. I don't know if Arianne is the most interesting of characters but her decisions are paramount. I think Daenerys may very well get into Westeros via Dorne with her army with little to no trouble if she has the support of the ruler/rulers of Dorne and then stay protected because of the mountains and the desert that keep Dorne cut off from the rest of the continent. The first Targaryen conqueror couldn't conquer Dorne, but our second conqueror is going to slip on through because of this very same place. It'd be a little poetic.

I think the whole kidnapping of Myrcella in AFOC wasn't just a way to show the whole political situation in Dorne and Arianne's grievances with her father. I think GRRM is utilizing a little foreshadowing for the idea of Daenerys as queen or fighting to be queen in Westeros and that Arianne will be a huge supporter. I wonder if she will have to choose between Daenerys and Aegon or how the Dornish people with a Dornish "Queen" in Arianne will support a queen of Westeros in Daenerys.

Just my opinion :dunno:

Edited by The Blood Eyed Crow
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I just thought of something, probably nothing.

Weren't the Water Gardens built for the Daenerys that was sister to Daeron who was brokered and married off to a Martell to bring Dorne into the Iron Throne? The same Daenerys who loved a Daemon Blackfyre who started the Blackfyre rebellion after he was denied her. Wasn't it also Daemon's remaining sons and Bittersteel that later started the Golden Company after Daemon died and the rebellion extinguished? Might answer why Aegon feels the need to marry Dany.

If that's the case then the Martells have no reason to want anything to do with the Golden Company or a Blackfyre dressed up like a dragon, which could be the case with Aegon.

Interesting that it all comes back to one Daenerys or another. Also interesting that Daemon Blackfyre took for his arms the inverted sigil of the Targaryen's, which makes the possible lineage of this new Aegon even more mysterious.

This might be the reason we were given all those scenes of the Water Gardens, because how they came to be is so important to the story.

Edited by The Blood Eyed Crow
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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm sorry if i'm Off topic, but it wanted to ask some questions...

1) This is called "Arianne II" because GRRM read the second chapter of Arianne without reading the first? or did he read both?

2) is there any trascription of it (of them?) ?

1) It's the second Arianne chapter, otherwise the title of this thread would just be Arianne Part 2.

2) Try this

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Interesting. Sounds like Euron but I tend to doubt that one. I think seducing your brother's beloved wife is enough to cause a lot of hate--and maybe a death or two. I often wondered if Theon Greyjoy's brothers had molested him. The books mentions beatings and cruelties but not the molestations--and it would be strange if Theon was molested not Asha now that I think about it so I'll maybe that speculation should be ruled out.

I don't know why you are so obsessed with coming to the conclusion that every character was molested in one way or another?

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<mod gloves>

Boarders' notes on GRRM's reading at Worldcon are consolidated here. Please stay on topic. Speculation on unrelated or tangential developments can go elsewhere.

</mod gloves>

I wonder how might the Golden Company have taken Storm's End. I mean, 300 men loyal to Stannis, under the command of Gilbert Farring, Lord Meadows, and one of the Estermonts, guarded the walls, and were besieged by the Tyrell forces that Mace Tyrell left there when he rode to King's Landing, under the command of Mathis Rowan. I propose some strategies that might have helped young Aegon and Lord Connington to take the ancestral keep of House Baratheon:

  • They fell on the Tyrell men by night, and then led an attack directly against the walls of the Storm's End. They had more numbers than the defenders, and I really don't think Stannis left an elite garrison in the fortress. Its walls made it almost impregnable, but we must consider that the Golden Company sellswords are quite seasoned warriors.
  • They could have posed themselves as a relief force for the garrison. Once the castle was taken, they could have made a sortie and massacred the Tyrell army, which must have consisted mainly on Goldengrove knights and some other Tyrell bannermen under Lord Rowan.

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I wonder how might the Golden Company have taken Storm's End. I mean, 300 men loyal to Stannis, under the command of Gilbert Farring, Lord Meadows, and one of the Estermonts, guarded the walls, and were besieged by the Tyrell forces that Mace Tyrell left there when he rode to King's Landing, under the command of Mathis Rowan. I propose some strategies that might have helped young Aegon and Lord Connington to take the ancestral keep of House Baratheon:

  • They fell on the Tyrell men by night, and then led an attack directly against the walls of the Storm's End. They had more numbers than the defenders, and I really don't think Stannis left an elite garrison in the fortress. Its walls made it almost impregnable, but we must consider that the Golden Company sellswords are quite seasoned warriors.
  • They could have posed themselves as a relief force for the garrison. Once the castle was taken, they could have made a sortie and massacred the Tyrell army, which must have consisted mainly on Goldengrove knights and some other Tyrell bannermen under Lord Rowan.

Another possibility which I had come to the conclusion of when reading was that they posed as Stannis' men and after defeating the besieging Tyrell force the garrison inside the castle simply opened the gates for them. I'm not sure what the quote at the beginning of your post means, I hope I'm not breaking any rules I am pretty sure this is related to the Arianne chapter because thats where we find out that Aegon/Connington have taken Storms End, or at least the men of the golden company at Griffens Roost think so

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Another possibility which I had come to the conclusion of when reading was that they posed as Stannis' men and after defeating the besieging Tyrell force the garrison inside the castle simply opened the gates for them. I'm not sure what the quote at the beginning of your post means, I hope I'm not breaking any rules I am pretty sure this is related to the Arianne chapter because thats where we find out that Aegon/Connington have taken Storms End, or at least the men of the golden company at Griffens Roost think so

Exactly! I think the Tyrell bannermen might have been defeated by the Golden Company using any of those three tactics. Or perhaps after the Trial by Faith is ended, and Margaery may be declared innocent, Mace might take her with his army and after seeing that Aegon VI is a true Targaryen, he could propose his daughter as consort to the Dragon pretender. I just want Margaery to be queen, she would be a good one.

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Exactly! I think the Tyrell bannermen might have been defeated by the Golden Company using any of those three tactics. Or perhaps after the Trial by Faith is ended, and Margaery may be declared innocent, Mace might take her with his army and after seeing that Aegon VI is a true Targaryen, he could propose his daughter as consort to the Dragon pretender. I just want Margaery to be queen, she would be a good one.

Not while Tommen is still alive, and Cersei is not foolish enough to let Mace take his daughter away from KL. Margaery is already a queen by being married to Tommen, and as Lady Olenna states the Tyrells value their word more than all the gold in Casterly Rock.

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Not while Tommen is still alive, and Cersei is not foolish enough to let Mace take his daughter away from KL. Margaery is already a queen by being married to Tommen, and as Lady Olenna states the Tyrells value their word more than all the gold in Casterly Rock.

How do you see Cersei having a say in the matter? But past that I actually think she'd jump at the opportunity to separate her from Tommen.

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How do you see Cersei having a say in the matter? But past that I actually think she'd jump at the opportunity to separate her from Tommen.

With Kevan dead, that would make Cersei would re-assert herself as Tommen's guardian, thinking the Tyrells are behind Kevan and Pycelle's deaths in attempt to seize power in the court. Cersei wants Margaery dead, true enough, but she wants Margaery as a potential hostage, and in the Red Keep so she can keep an eye on her.

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With Kevan dead, that would make Cersei would re-assert herself as Tommen's guardian, thinking the Tyrells are behind Kevan and Pycelle's deaths in attempt to seize power in the court. Cersei wants Margaery dead, true enough, but she wants Margaery as a potential hostage, and in the Red Keep so she can keep an eye on her.

While we can't truly know what Cersei would think of it, we do know that Mace Tyrell is the one with the real power here. If i recall correctly he has 30,000 troops in the city, that should be enough even to handle ungregor.

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While we can't truly know what Cersei would think of it, we do know that Mace Tyrell is the one with the real power here. If i recall correctly he has 30,000 troops in the city, that should be enough even to handle ungregor.

and he high septon is about to give his only daughter a trial ...

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While we can't truly know what Cersei would think of it, we do know that Mace Tyrell is the one with the real power here. If i recall correctly he has 30,000 troops in the city, that should be enough even to handle ungregor.

Not if Cersei's guards surround Margaery, and numbers don't matter as long as Cersei can get to her first. Mace Tyrell has a large host, but he isn't the brightest candle on the chandelier.

Edited by Fire Eater
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Not if Cersei's guards surround Margaery, and numbers don't matter as long as Cersei can get to her first. Mace Tyrell has a large host, but he isn't the brightest candle on the chandelier.

You're right about Mace thats true, and I did think we'd see Cersei rise again before she fell for good, but shit will definitely get crazy if Cersei tries to do anything to Margery, I just can't see Mace doing nothing .The High Septon also seems to be more on the Tyrells side than hers, if he's not entirely Varys puppet that is. Mace got him to release her without a walk of shame, I had assumed it was under threat of arms.

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