[twow Spoilers] Arianne II, Part 2

[Steve Stark]

I deleted it myself. Drunk post. Please look the other way.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Steve Stark

[Gordias]

I agree with what you say about Dany's true purpose but what you said about Mereen got me thinking. I get the impression that Dany does not like ruling and all the hassle it brings, from what we see in Dance all her pov's make me think that she dislikes holding court, dealing with the problems that come with being a ruler.

I know this is a little crackpot and I don't know if it's been discussed before so apologies if so but i think maybe Dany might be the one who decides who rules westeros rather than ruling it herself.

Her being the mother of dragons makes me think along the lines that if Jon is the son of Lyanna, Aegon is the real deal and Tyrion is a Targaryen those are the three heads we hear so much about and her role is more that of a mother.

I admit this is crackpot but just thought I'd share my thoughts on this

Nah, I agree with you here.

It's orthodox on this forum to assume that in Dany's "three treasons you will know..." is from the perspective of Dany (i.e. she is being betrayed), but after having read a few convincing posters on here I'm of the opinion it refers to betrayals she'll do. The others are for another thread, but I very much like the idea of Dany betraying her responsibilities to the realm after securing the Iron Throne, and much like her predecessor Egg choosing to marry or elope for love. Which will be her downfall (GRRM did say a bittersweet ending).

[VanDerAllen]

Nah, I agree with you here.

It's orthodox on this forum to assume that in Dany's "three treasons you will know..." is from the perspective of Dany (i.e. she is being betrayed), but after having read a few convincing posters on here I'm of the opinion it refers to betrayals she'll do. The others are for another thread, but I very much like the idea of Dany betraying her responsibilities to the realm after securing the Iron Throne, and much like her predecessor Egg choosing to marry or elope for love. Which will be her downfall (GRRM did say a bittersweet ending).

I like the reference to Egg in this, I just have this impression she's trying to do the right thing, the just thing in mereen but she's a bit like ned stark was in KL she believes in justice and maybe honour and i feel she would disdain the "game of thrones" even though many agree she would be a good queen. If we are correct and she is the "Kingmaker" as such, I can see her going back to the house with the red door and finding her share of peace after a life fighting/on the run. That or her death will serve some purpose in westeros, maybe thats the bittersweet?

[rondo has three heads]

So I'm sure this has come up in the 40 some odd pages dedicated to this chapter (which I really enjoy), but none of the characters seem to believe that Aegon is legit. I wonder if this will be the widespread belief, since the idea of Aegon got the same reception at KL in the epilogue of ADWD, and the fAegon cover simply doesn't go over

[A Son of Ice and Fire]

I believed Aegon to be real until reading the first Arrianne chapter, now I think it is more likely that he is fake. I guess GRRM is trying to hold both doors open, just not to spoil the surprise, but I believe it will be revealed in a short time that he is fake and he won't be able to survive for long. I found really funny that some people think that there will be a Aegon+GC/Tyrell alliance. That is very unlikely, but there is a real possibility that JC and Aegon eliminated, GC will take sides with who has the money to pay. Tyrells are able do that. So instead of allying with Aegon, we may very well see GC bought by Tyrells, which will eventually help them grow strong...

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I believed Aegon to be real until reading the first Arrianne chapter, now I think it is more likely that he is fake. I guess GRRM is trying to hold both doors open, just not to spoil the surprise, but I believe it will be revealed in a short time that he is fake and he won't be able to survive for long. I found really funny that some people think that there will be a Aegon+GC/Tyrell alliance. That is very unlikely, but there is a real possibility that JC and Aegon eliminated, GC will take sides with who has the money to pay. Tyrells are able do that. So instead of allying with Aegon, we may very well see GC bought by Tyrells, which will eventually help them grow strong...

Just wondering, what about the Arianne chapter made you think Aegon is fake?

[A Son of Ice and Fire]

[ Could this truly be Prince Aegon?"

"Gregor Clegane ripped Aegon out of Elia’s arms and smashed his head against a wall," Ser Daemon said. "If Lord Connington’s prince has a crushed skull, I will believe that Aegon Targaryen has returned from the grave. Elsewise, no. This is some feigned boy, no more. A sellsword’s ploy to win support."

My father fears the same. "If not, though… if this truly is Jon Connington, if the boy is Rhaegar’s son… "

"Are you hoping that he is, or that he’s not?"

"I… it would give great joy to my father if Elia’s son were still alive. He loved his sister well."

"It was you I asked about, not your father."

So it was. "I was seven when Elia died. They say I held her daughter Rhaenys once, when I was too young to remember. Aegon will be a stranger to me, whether true or false." The princess paused. "We looked for Rhaegar’s sister, not his son." ]

The choice of the words that GRRM used made me think. Nothing obvious, just an intuition. Can't say anything for sure...but sth made me feel a serious doubt instantly...

[Suzanna Stormborn]

[ Could this truly be Prince Aegon?"

"Gregor Clegane ripped Aegon out of Elia’s arms and smashed his head against a wall," Ser Daemon said. "If Lord Connington’s prince has a crushed skull, I will believe that Aegon Targaryen has returned from the grave. Elsewise, no. This is some feigned boy, no more. A sellsword’s ploy to win support."

My father fears the same. "If not, though… if this truly is Jon Connington, if the boy is Rhaegar’s son… "

"Are you hoping that he is, or that he’s not?"

"I… it would give great joy to my father if Elia’s son were still alive. He loved his sister well."

"It was you I asked about, not your father."

So it was. "I was seven when Elia died. They say I held her daughter Rhaenys once, when I was too young to remember. Aegon will be a stranger to me, whether true or false." The princess paused. "We looked for Rhaegar’s sister, not his son." ]

The choice of the words that GRRM used made me think. Nothing obvious, just an intuition. Can't say anything for sure...but sth made me feel a serious doubt instantly...

Cool, thanx for sharing :)that conversation is exactly what everyone is thinking, that's funny :cool4:

[tbc]

I agree with what you say about Dany's true purpose but what you said about Mereen got me thinking. I get the impression that Dany does not like ruling and all the hassle it brings, from what we see in Dance all her pov's make me think that she dislikes holding court, dealing with the problems that come with being a ruler.

I know this is a little crackpot and I don't know if it's been discussed before so apologies if so but i think maybe Dany might be the one who decides who rules westeros rather than ruling it herself.

Her being the mother of dragons makes me think along the lines that if Jon is the son of Lyanna, Aegon is the real deal and Tyrion is a Targaryen those are the three heads we hear so much about and her role is more that of a mother.

I admit this is crackpot but just thought I'd share my thoughts on this

Not sure about the symbolism, but I could see Dany not actively ruling. Aegon the Conqueror didn't rule, he delegated it to Orys and his sisters.

[Lady Nastja]

Off topic, but I wonder if the Damphair chapter confirms the speculation that he was molested by Euron as a child. Yikes.

That was my first thought too. I suppose the fans chose the Arianne chapter because they thought that she would have already arrived at Griffin's Roost, and they wanted to hear her thoughts on Aegon etc. and possibly his plans.

[Gekke Henkie]

Not sure about the symbolism, but I could see Dany not actively ruling. Aegon the Conqueror didn't rule, he delegated it to Orys and his sisters.

Well, that would be ideal.

[Fire Eater]

The Yronwoods were an ancient house, proud and powerful. Before the coming of the Rhoynar they had been kings over half of Dorne, with domains that dwarfed those of House Martell. Blood feud and rebellion would surely have followed Lord Edgar’s death, had not her father acted at once.

Interesting that the word Arianne uses is "dwarfed." That brings to mind one dwarf, Tyrion, and I think this foreshadows him managing to get the Yronwoonds to switch sides to Dany and fight against the Martells.

Cletus Yronwood died on the trip Doran sent him before reaching Dany, and so the Yronwoods might blame Doran for Cletus's death. They may ask to foster Trystane as recompense. Arianne may refuse, feeling that they may fill his head with thoughts of replacing Arianne as the ruling Prince of Dorne. That will be one of the main factors that drives the Yronwoods into the arms of Dany and Tyrion.

[CerseisPimp]

I am going to be real blunt here, sorry if it offends anyone, the only thing Arianne has going for her is that she knows how to fuck. She does not plan movements beyond seducing men............ the one time she had any part in it, it failed, miserably. Non character

[CerseisPimp]

Which is why Dany and Aegon will mount the IT.

[Rashtibram]

I'm sorry if this has been heavily discussed earlier (I haven't read all twenty pages of this thread, seeing as it started in 2011, and I'm also not aware if this girl has come up already earlier in the story), but what about Teora (the girl from Ghost Hill who had the dragon dreams)? She seems somewhat psychic to the point of Dany's dragon-dreams and Stark warging. I'm just wondering what the general consensus about her is.

[aryagonnakill]

I'm sorry if this has been heavily discussed earlier (I haven't read all twenty pages of this thread, seeing as it started in 2011, and I'm also not aware if this girl has come up already earlier in the story), but what about Teora (the girl from Ghost Hill who had the dragon dreams)? She seems somewhat psychic to the point of Dany's dragon-dreams and Stark warging. I'm just wondering what the general consensus about her is.

Rhoyner magic. or some Targ bastardy/marriages leading to targ dreams. Definitely foreshadowing Aegon and Dany fighting.

[Fire Eater]

Which is why Dany and Aegon will mount the IT.

Actually neither of them will.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I'm sorry if this has been heavily discussed earlier (I haven't read all twenty pages of this thread, seeing as it started in 2011, and I'm also not aware if this girl has come up already earlier in the story), but what about Teora (the girl from Ghost Hill who had the dragon dreams)? She seems somewhat psychic to the point of Dany's dragon-dreams and Stark warging. I'm just wondering what the general consensus about her is.

I have been deeply wondering the same thing. There is simply not enough info about her or her family. Many Dornish families have some targaryen blood (she could be a descendant from the 1st Danaerys), so she could just be falling in line with her Targ ancestors in D&E and having dragon dreams. It's all very confusing, because Targ's so far are the only ones with prophetic dragon dreams, and Tyrion of course, but that's another argument. So yeah I am very interested to find out more about that girl and her dreams as well.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Suzanna Stormborn

[TalalOfDorne]

Something tells me that if Daemon Sand was sent to seduce JonCon, then the following will happen: Daemon succeeds but to his dismay JonCons greyscale became active again, and he then has sex with Arainne which gives her greyscale as well :bawl: .

I think this might begin spreading greyscale in the South while Shireen does it in the North.

[Team Martell]

I am going to be real blunt here, sorry if it offends anyone, the only thing Arianne has going for her is that she knows how to fuck. She does not plan movements beyond seducing men............ the one time she had any part in it, it failed, miserably. Non character

It's a more valuable talent than it may sound. She fucked a kingsguard into committing high treason and breaking his oath to the true "legal" king (Tommen).

She also has willpower that the other women in this series (other than Brienne) haven't shown. She actually did something bout her problems other than just hopelessly whine and cry.

Her trust is also difficult to win, and I'd bet it'll get even more difficult after Darkstar's actions. She isn't a Sansa clone.