[twow Spoilers] Arianne II, Part 2

[Mulled Wino]

The Tyrells are at freaking war with Aegon. Even speculating on a marriage pact is pure fantasy and thats without even considering how ruined Margarey is at this point. Even if she is deemed innocent, there is this little problem of her husband always dying. Makes no sense for Aegon to ally with Tyrells at all when Dorne will happily crush the mostly undefended Reach.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ive been laughing all the way through this thread at the Tyrell/Aegon alliance speculation. Everyone is talking about "how would the Tyrells switch sides?".

Duh, they are in power right now, you cant switch from the top position; or wouldn't. Its not even an option worth considering. They control a majority of the small council, the largest army in KL, have the most money (arguably), and the most fertile lands. So they are goinvg to bend the knee? Laughable.

[Mulled Wino]

I wonder what will happen when doran finds out Quentyn is dead by the hands of the dany's dragons. Will they stick by aegon's side or... I would love them to form an alliance with the Starks by Sansa since she'll probably unite the north, riverlands and the vale

I dont think for a second that Doran will abandon Dany over it. He had to KNOW this arrangement was a huge longshot.

All this Martell/Aegon/Stark talk is out of bounds to me. Whoever comes out of the south will not be able to partner with someone who worships the old gods because of Cersei's dumb ass. The faith militant is a wildcard i havent even seen considered yet in this thread.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Mulled Wino

[GoldenVale]

Thank you and to expound on the Cersei situation, by this time, even the most loyal of the Lannister commanders such as Adam Maraband know now that she is utterly incompetent as a leader. I find it inconceivable that she can regain power when the word is out on her, and she has no support system. Jamie himself would never support her. Forget whatever happens with R Gregor Strong, GRRM wouldn't go there. Cersei has zero allies in KL right now and she is not taking her power back (especially with Jamie on his way to the BwB and a situation that likely wont resolve quickly).

LF knows Cersei has destroyed her power and Varys cant even hell her at this point.

I dont think for a second that Doran will abandon Dany over it. He had to KNOW this arrangement was a huge longshot.

All this Martell/Aegon/Stark talk is out of bounds to me. Whoever comes out of the south will not be able to partner with someone who worships the old gods because of Cersei's dumb ass. The faith militant is a wildcard i havent even seen considered yet in this thread.

Well the point of being a wild card is that you can't really predict what they'll do.

As to Cersei. Cersei herself shouldn't have that much to worry about since as Varys wants to keep her in power so she can mess things up some more and will thus work his magic to ensure her relative safety from the Faith Militant. She may be in dire straits but if Varys really wants her around to do more damage then I'm sure he'll do his best.

Aegon doesn't have much chance of getting their help IMO, being that 1. He hasn't been seen as legitimate yet and 2. even if he was we don't know what the faith militant thinks of Targs.

I think the Faith Militant are going to focus on "cleaning" up the capital and as such going head to head with the council.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Well the point of being a wild card is that you can't really predict what they'll do.

As to Cersei. Cersei herself shouldn't have that much to worry about since as Varys wants to keep her in power so she can mess things up some more and will thus work his magic to ensure her relative safety from the Faith Militant. She may be in dire straits but if Varys really wants her around to do more damage then I'm sure he'll do his best.

Aegon doesn't have much chance of getting their help IMO, being that 1. He hasn't been seen as legitimate yet and 2. even if he was we don't know what the faith militant thinks of Targs.

I think the Faith Militant are going to focus on "cleaning" up the capital and as such going head to head with the council.

Yes I think the faith Militant are going to do a Spanish Inquisition style clean out of KL. It is going to be crazy, they already have their little army of the faith including Lancel Lannister. History shows again and again that people on a religious rampage are extremely serious and not forgiving at all. They kill and kill without question, look at the Salem Witch Trials. KL is going to have a theological war inside the walls. i suppose Varys will be trying to supplant Aegon in the lannister seats of power, which he has basically done already, I mean there is no one left, only tommen and cersei, and what power do they have anymore? cersei only has Qyburn and UnGregor. They are going to have to flee for their lives. that is her only choice to save her sons life. She is going to flee northwest to casterly Rock or possibly she will try to find Jaime thinking he still loves her. when she does find him he is going to kill her, he might even kill tommen too.

[Mulled Wino]

Well the point of being a wild card is that you can't really predict what they'll do.

As to Cersei. Cersei herself shouldn't have that much to worry about since as Varys wants to keep her in power so she can mess things up some more and will thus work his magic to ensure her relative safety from the Faith Militant. She may be in dire straits but if Varys really wants her around to do more damage then I'm sure he'll do his best.

Aegon doesn't have much chance of getting their help IMO, being that 1. He hasn't been seen as legitimate yet and 2. even if he was we don't know what the faith militant thinks of Targs.

I think the Faith Militant are going to focus on "cleaning" up the capital and as such going head to head with the council.

With this wild card, i can hypothesize that supporting a king/queen than worships different Gods wont be accepted by the militant religious extremists no?

Even Varys can't keep a regent in power if they have none of their own support.

[Montey14]

The faith militant is a huge wild card.....maybe in their purge of Kings Landing ....they declare that Tommen is abominination and force him to relinquish the crown, as he is child born of incest. that will probably pave the way for the terrells to take over and form an alliance with the Targs....being that they were Targarean banners to begin with. I see a possibility of Margery and tommens marriage being voided and marriage brokered between her and Aegon. Why else would Varys and Littlefinger woek so diligently to bring down Jeoffry and the Lannisters?? Cersei is completely powerless after her walk of shame....she has no allies....no backing ...and everyone knows she is an incompotent leader. If she can get out of Kings Landing alive and go back to Casterly rock and live happily ever after ....she should sign on the dotted line....

[Montey14]

Now that I think about out....Tyrells and Dornish make a terrible mix.....Margery and Aegon is not a possiblility ...especially if the Dornish back Aegon....they would probably want a marriage with Arrianne. And yes the sandsnakes are all abour treachery ....as they are hungry for revenge for their father and the destruction of the Lannisters.....again....the faith is a huge wild card....and can be very instrumental in bringing about tommens end....perhaps a little bird will whisper in their ear about tommens ilegitemate claim to the throne....The Tyrells were Targarean men...and perhaps will turn on the Lannisters once they see how bad it goes for them and see them losing power....especially with Kevan dead. the Tyrells have been known to switch sides.....just look how they did Stannis wrong when Renly was killed....

[DExit]

The Tyrells are primary their own men. Sure, there was a battle at Ashford, but Tarly had defeated Robert before Mace even got there. So while the starks, tullys and arryns join the rebellion and become a threath to the Crown, Mace is besieging storm's end with the bigger part of his army- unsure at this point btw, were any Tyrell bannermen present at the Trident?- that is not the path of a down the bone-loyalist! Such a man whould have left a small force in the stormlands to make sure Stannis doesn't become a thread and take the rest of his army to KL.

They are just going to wait and see how everything turns out... and then join the winning side.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Now that I think about out....Tyrells and Dornish make a terrible mix.....Margery and Aegon is not a possiblility ...especially if the Dornish back Aegon....they would probably want a marriage with Arrianne. And yes the sandsnakes are all abour treachery ....as they are hungry for revenge for their father and the destruction of the Lannisters.....again....the faith is a huge wild card....and can be very instrumental in bringing about tommens end....perhaps a little bird will whisper in their ear about tommens ilegitemate claim to the throne....The Tyrells were Targarean men...and perhaps will turn on the Lannisters once they see how bad it goes for them and see them losing power....especially with Kevan dead. the Tyrells have been known to switch sides.....just look how they did Stannis wrong when Renly was killed....

Yes Doran Martell is absolutely trying to set up his daughter Arianne with aegon, if he proves to be real. OMG won't Dorne look so stupid if the betroth Arianne and Aegon then he turns out to be fake!

[DExit]

Yes Doran Martell is absolutely trying to set up his daughter Arianne with aegon, if he proves to be real. OMG won't Dorne look so stupid if the betroth Arianne and Aegon then he turns out to be fake!

Why? Doran would just name that false and fight on to make his daughter a queen. Stannis wrote every lord in westeros, but still, most people believe Tommen to be the real deal or they just don't care.

Doran has no other options than Aegon, he hates the lannisters, Stannis is far away and once he hears how Dany welcomed his son and how Quentin burned alive because Dany favored a local nobleman above a prince of Dorne, well how do you think he'll react: he was plotting for years to avenge his siter, he will rage for his son.

Edited February 25, 2013 by DExit

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Why? Doran would just name that false and fight on to make his daughter a queen. Stannis wrote every lord in westeros, but still, most people believe Tommen to be the real deal or they just don't care.

Doran has no other options than Aegon, he hates the lannisters, Stannis is far away and once he hears how Dany welcomed his son and how Quentin burned alive because Dany favored a local nobleman above a prince of Dorne, well how do you think he'll react: he was plotting for years to avenge his siter, he will rage for his son.

OMG you are so right! He is gonna have a shit-fit when he finds out how Quentyn died. But in the end what will getting extremely upset do? I mean the Elia/Rhaegar relationship is all that Dorne has to hold on to. and now that I think about it. Aegon can't be marrying Arianne, they are too closely related right. Elia is Ariannes aunt, so Aegon is her first cousin. That's too close, right, don't the Lords frown upon marrying cousins? Ugh someone make this book come out now! I can't wait 4 more years!

[DExit]

OMG you are so right! He is gonna have a shit-fit when he finds out how Quentyn died. But in the end what will getting extremely upset do? I mean the Elia/Rhaegar relationship is all that Dorne has to hold on to. and now that I think about it. Aegon can't be marrying Arianne, they are too closely related right. Elia is Ariannes aunt, so Aegon is her first cousin. That's too close, right, don't the Lords frown upon marrying cousins? Ugh someone make this book come out now! I can't wait 4 more years!

Tywin married his cousin if I'm right? In westeros and in medieval Europe, the royalty was always related, so wedding a close relative was not a big problem.

Somehow, I don't see Dany coming to central-Westeros ever, but if she does Doran will do something against her, most likely not open war, but something more subtle, maybe send in a sandsnake? Hire a faceless man? Tinking again, he will probably not rage, but weep, maybe the news of quentin's death kills him...

[KittensRuleBeetsDrool]

Tywin and Joanna Lannister were first cousins and allowed to marry. And yes, in real life, cousin marriage was very common among European royalty, to form alliances and because there was a limited pool of marriage candidates. Anything closer than first cousins seems to have been a big no-no unless one was a Targaryen, and even then, not all Targs married their siblings.

So Arianne could marry Elia's son and that would be fine according to Westerosi tradition, and Doran would probably want that marriage for Arianne - assuming Aegon is real, that is. If Arianne were to marry a fake Aegon, at the least, the Martells have egg (har!) on their faces, at the most, they are in danger because they are associated with a pretender.

I wonder if Arianne, or anyone else, is going to find out that JonCon has the greyscale, and what will happen then.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Tywin and Joanna Lannister were first cousins and allowed to marry. And yes, in real life, cousin marriage was very common among European royalty, to form alliances and because there was a limited pool of marriage candidates. Anything closer than first cousins seems to have been a big no-no unless one was a Targaryen, and even then, not all Targs married their siblings.

So Arianne could marry Elia's son and that would be fine according to Westerosi tradition, and Doran would probably want that marriage for Arianne - assuming Aegon is real, that is. If Arianne were to marry a fake Aegon, at the least, the Martells have egg (har!) on their faces, at the most, they are in danger because they are associated with a pretender.

I wonder if Arianne, or anyone else, is going to find out that JonCon has the greyscale, and what will happen then.

very good point. Someone will have to find out eventually that he has the Greyscale. i'm wondering if Aegon is fake does he know it? If he is fake then Jon Con and the Septa/ashara dayne knows it too cuz she is his mother probably.

I am really wondering if the Dornish will be fooled by the fake Aegon, or if they will hold out for Dany?

Also the guys that came to Mereen with Quentyn are already headed back to westeros right? so Doran martell will have to find out sooner rather than later what happened to his oldest son. And if the guys tell him the exact story as it happened in the dragon cave then maybe he won't blame Dany. i mean it's not her fault he died. and it's not her fault he got there too late to marry her.

[DExit]

i mean it's not her fault he died. and it's not her fault he got there too late to marry her.

Is it now? The Quentyn-companions will tell Doran the truth: Quent being spurned etcetera, Dany had nothing to do with his death but it were her dragons... But how he was treated by the members of Dany's court- the likes of Daario won't impress Doran btw- and how she favord a local over him, I don't think Doran is going to like all that.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Is it now? The Quentyn-companions will tell Doran the truth: Quent being spurned etcetera, Dany had nothing to do with his death but it were her dragons... But how he was treated by the members of Dany's court- the likes of Daario won't impress Doran btw- and how she favord a local over him, I don't think Doran is going to like all that.

Yeah he won't like it, but what's he gonna do? the targaryens and Dorne are each other's only friends in Westeros. Seems like they would stick together. Unless, of course, it comes to surface that at some point Rhaegar did in fact set Elia aside to make Lyanna his official lady before Jon was born. Which I think had to have happened right? i think it was Rhaegar and Lyanna in Dany's vision in the HOTU......does anyone else?

[aryagonnakill]

Yeah he won't like it, but what's he gonna do? the targaryens and Dorne are each other's only friends in Westeros. Seems like they would stick together. Unless, of course, it comes to surface that at some point Rhaegar did in fact set Elia aside to make Lyanna his official lady before Jon was born. Which I think had to have happened right? i think it was Rhaegar and Lyanna in Dany's vision in the HOTU......does anyone else?

People who have read Dunk and Egg have said Targs can have multiple brides legally, I don't see how that works, but I thought that Dany saw Rhaegar holding Aegon with Elia being very weak. And then Rhaegar said there had to be a third, am I completely misremembering this?

[DExit]

People who have read Dunk and Egg have said Targs can have multiple brides legally, I don't see how that works, but I thought that Dany saw Rhaegar holding Aegon with Elia being very weak. And then Rhaegar said there had to be a third, am I completely misremembering this?

It's posssible for a male Targ to wed multiple wives, although I'm unsure it was still in custom after the conquest. If dany was to wed two men, no single man in westeros would follow her, because all the important people are men, need I say more, it would be called unnatural and evil or something.

Aegon can wed Arrianne and Dany, but then, whose child should inherit the throne? Marriage alliances are made to make a family bond between mighty houses, so if Dany's child will inherit the throne, Dorne gains absolutly nothing. I don't see Dany allowing a second women in her marriage btw...

Edited March 6, 2013 by DExit

[Suzanna Stormborn]

People who have read Dunk and Egg have said Targs can have multiple brides legally, I don't see how that works, but I thought that Dany saw Rhaegar holding Aegon with Elia being very weak. And then Rhaegar said there had to be a third, am I completely misremembering this?

I just bought the books with Dunk & Egg short stories in them. Ill have to get back to this after I read:)

And I can't remember exactly what they said in her vision, except that 'this is the PWWP' I just thought that it was Rhaegar and Lyanna instead of Elia. there is never a mention of who the woman is specifically.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Suzanna Stormborn

[Miriel]

I just bought the books with Dunk & Egg short stories in them. Ill have to get back to this after I read:)

And I can't remember exactly what they said in her vision, except that 'this is the PWWP' I just thought that it was Rhaegar and Lyanna instead of Elia. there is never a mention of who the woman is specifically.

IIRC, the woman is Elia. She asks if Rhaegar will make a song for the baby and he replies, that he has a song, the SOIAF, for he is the PWWP. And he does say there must be one more.