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[twow Spoilers] Arianne II, Part 2

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Doran's a smart, patient kind of guy. If he gets the story of how Quentyn died from Gerris Drinkwater, Archibald Yronwood and Barristan Selmy I doubt he'll blame Dany for it. He might even get mad at Drink and the Big Man for letting Quentyn do something that stupid. Barristan Selmy's word counts for too much. If Dany's got dragons when she shows up I don't think he'll be too mad at her for his son's death. She didn't have anything to do with it, and Selmy can repeat the fact that Quentyn got there too late. I don't really want another Dance of the Dragons, it'd be kind of a waste of time.

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It's posssible for a male Targ to wed multiple wives, although I'm unsure it was still in custom after the conquest. If dany was to wed two men, no single man in westeros would follow her, because all the important people are men, need I say more, it would be called unnatural and evil or something.

Aegon can wed Arrianne and Dany, but then, whose child should inherit the throne? Marriage alliances are made to make a family bond between mighty houses, so if Dany's child will inherit the throne, Dorne gains absolutly nothing. I don't see Dany allowing a second women in her marriage btw...

No. No. No. NO.

Arianne Martell is the heir to Dorne, Asha Greyjoy is the heir to the Iron Islands (or will contest the Kingsmoot through Theon and rule through him), Shireen Baratheon is the heir to Stannis's kingdom, Sansa Stark is the heir to Winterfell (and she's also currently Edmure Tully's heir if he ever re-takes Riverrun), Cersei Lannister is the heir to Casterly Rock, women have been ruling Bear Island for years, Alys Karstark will probably inherit the lordship, etc.

So please tell me how "all the important people are men"? And please tell me how these men in Westeros will oppose Daenerys after she storms through Essos, sacking and pillaging cities, and defeats Aegon in the second dance of the dragons? They'll bend the knee or she'll destroy them. If they don't like her taking two husbands or six husbands or one hundred husbands, they can feel free to oppose her... but they will lose.

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I have a feeling a marriage between Arianne and Aegon will never actually happen even if there is a betrothal/alliance... some shit's gonna hit the fan. i do want Doran Martell to get his revenge though. I like the Martells.

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No. No. No. NO.

Arianne Martell is the heir to Dorne, Asha Greyjoy is the heir to the Iron Islands (or will contest the Kingsmoot through Theon and rule through him), Shireen Baratheon is the heir to Stannis's kingdom, Sansa Stark is the heir to Winterfell (and she's also currently Edmure Tully's heir if he ever re-takes Riverrun), Cersei Lannister is the heir to Casterly Rock, women have been ruling Bear Island for years, Alys Karstark will probably inherit the lordship, etc.

So please tell me how "all the important people are men"? And please tell me how these men in Westeros will oppose Daenerys after she storms through Essos, sacking and pillaging cities, and defeats Aegon in the second dance of the dragons? They'll bend the knee or she'll destroy them. If they don't like her taking two husbands or six husbands or one hundred husbands, they can feel free to oppose her... but they will lose.

not to knock your point, but Sansa is not first in line for winterfell or riverun winterfell, though i think she may eventually end up with it

Edited by Ser Pollo Loco

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This chapter doesn't seem to be available on GRRM's website anymore since he revamped it, does anyone have it saved somewhere?

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THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ive been laughing all the way through this thread at the Tyrell/Aegon alliance speculation. Everyone is talking about "how would the Tyrells switch sides?".

Duh, they are in power right now, you cant switch from the top position; or wouldn't. Its not even an option worth considering. They control a majority of the small council, the largest army in KL, have the most money (arguably), and the most fertile lands. So they are goinvg to bend the knee? Laughable.

The Tyrells are in a deceptively weak position. They control KL, but not the King, and assuming Cersei is proved innocent in trial by combat, will be embroiled in nasty intrigue and complicit in Cersei's mis-government. Militarily, they're in trouble too: Euron's raids on the Reach were nasty, and their army could well be trapped between the GC holding Storms End, and a Martell army attacking their flank. Also, even if Mace doesn't want to declare for Aegon, many of his bannermen will want to. They fought for Renly against the Lannisters, and have typically been staunch Targaryen loyalists.

The only person the Tyrells have enthusiastically followed thus far is Renly (young, charismatic, honourable etc.). They followed Stannis partly out of fear of killer shadows, and partly convenience. Ditto they followed the Lannisters out of expediency. If Aegon becomes a better prospect than Tommen, then they'll stab Cersei in the back immediately.

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I disagree. I'd love to see Doran's reaction to Aegon and his musings on what is happening with Quentyn, King's Landing and so on. It's these details - one of the things that make it so epic.

Precisely. This series is as much about characters as about the events. What people like Doran think and how they come to decisions is fascinating. It is also one thing that makes this imaginary world so "real".

Not saying much. Most people are more effective and efficient than Dany.

True. Most people are not main characters with a good chance to sit on the Iron Throne and so don't need several chapters devoted to them.

Although I will concede that GRRM could have moved the Dany story faster or more interesting in book five.

Edited by bippukt

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No. No. No. NO.

Arianne Martell is the heir to Dorne, Asha Greyjoy is the heir to the Iron Islands (or will contest the Kingsmoot through Theon and rule through him), Shireen Baratheon is the heir to Stannis's kingdom, Sansa Stark is the heir to Winterfell (and she's also currently Edmure Tully's heir if he ever re-takes Riverrun), Cersei Lannister is the heir to Casterly Rock, women have been ruling Bear Island for years, Alys Karstark will probably inherit the lordship, etc.

So please tell me how "all the important people are men"? And please tell me how these men in Westeros will oppose Daenerys after she storms through Essos, sacking and pillaging cities, and defeats Aegon in the second dance of the dragons? They'll bend the knee or she'll destroy them. If they don't like her taking two husbands or six husbands or one hundred husbands, they can feel free to oppose her... but they will lose.

Dorne knows maternall rule, theon is heir to the SC,Shireen is heir indeed, the both girls who are thought of as Stark/not (jeyne suppossed to be arya and alayne= sansa) are married because of their claim, Ramsey and Tyrion where able to claim wf because of their wives, not to say a woman would never rule north of dorne, you named lady Mormont, but in reality Rams and Tyrion would be claiming the rights of their sons once they where born. As to Cersei: she is regent for her sons, she reigns trough them, this goes also in the Casterly rock fashion, tommen is lord of Casterly rock although to young to claim it. Alys comes after Harrion and not before, btw harrion dead would make the magnar lord of karhold, trough alys, yes, but still.

Dany taking two husbands would be frowned upon, would start rebellions from her lords, and afterwards of her own sons against their halfbrother kings, just awesome! Dany needs the help of westerosi to gain the throne if she ever leaves meereen, you are staking too much hope on unsullied, sellswords and savages. I almost forgot the dragons, but I'm counting the citadel to take them out, maybe poison or something.

Edited by DExit

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not to knock your point, but Sansa is not first in line for winterfell or riverun winterfell, though i think she may eventually end up with it

Bran is the heir of Winterfell but he is assumed dead and lets face it,Bran will never leave the cave as Brandon Stark..he might warg into someone or something else..but the chances of him returning to winterfell as Bran Stark is very lowThat leaves us with Rickon who is in Skagos and assumed dead.So Sansa is the Heir of Winterfell right now,a fact known to all westerosi and thats why everyone(except for Jaime and Brienne) is searching for her..her claim..not to mention.Petyr intentions to reveal her identity and reclaim Winterfell..I'm sure Petyr has other bigger plans in his sleeve..Revealing Sansa's identity right now seems stupid..so i think Petyr has made some kind of alliance with someone with power(Aegon & Jon Connington? Tyrells?)..and dont forget that Sansa is also the heir of Riverrun if Edmure got it back..she is also the Lady of Vale right now(the lords of vale knows her and her cousin Robert loves her) ..plus through Tyrion she holds Casterly Rock and Tommen,Jaime is on her side....Tyrells seems to be fond of her too..she seems to be a glue that could stick all the kingdoms together again..she is definitely a valuable hostage..and Petyr is the one who strucked the gold

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Bran is the heir of Winterfell but he is assumed dead and lets face it,Bran will never leave the cave as Brandon Stark..he might warg into someone or something else..but the chances of him returning to winterfell as Bran Stark is very lowThat leaves us with Rickon who is in Skagos and assumed dead.So Sansa is the Heir of Winterfell right now,a fact known to all westerosi and thats why everyone(except for Jaime and Brienne) is searching for her..her claim..not to mention.Petyr intentions to reveal her identity and reclaim Winterfell..I'm sure Petyr has other bigger plans in his sleeve..Revealing Sansa's identity right now seems stupid..so i think Petyr has made some kind of alliance with someone with power(Aegon & Jon Connington? Tyrells?)..and dont forget that Sansa is also the heir of Riverrun if Edmure got it back..she is also the Lady of Vale right now(the lords of vale knows her and her cousin Robert loves her) ..plus through Tyrion she holds Casterly Rock and Tommen,Jaime is on her side....Tyrells seems to be fond of her too..she seems to be a glue that could stick all the kingdoms together again..she is definitely a valuable hostage..and Petyr is the one who strucked the gold

I am starting to think LF's real deal with the Tyrells was to bump off all the Lannisters and eventually marry LF to Margery when LF can bring in the North, Vale, Riverlands, Westerlands through Sansa and his scheming.

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The Tyrells are in a deceptively weak position. They control KL, but not the King, and assuming Cersei is proved innocent in trial by combat, will be embroiled in nasty intrigue and complicit in Cersei's mis-government. Militarily, they're in trouble too: Euron's raids on the Reach were nasty, and their army could well be trapped between the GC holding Storms End, and a Martell army attacking their flank. Also, even if Mace doesn't want to declare for Aegon, many of his bannermen will want to. They fought for Renly against the Lannisters, and have typically been staunch Targaryen loyalists.

The only person the Tyrells have enthusiastically followed thus far is Renly (young, charismatic, honourable etc.). They followed Stannis partly out of fear of killer shadows, and partly convenience. Ditto they followed the Lannisters out of expediency. If Aegon becomes a better prospect than Tommen, then they'll stab Cersei in the back immediately.

Cersei doesn't hold any power at the moment beyond waning motherly influence on Tommen. The Tyrells have a 5 to 1 majority on the small ouncil at least, Mace is probably Hand-Regent, Margeary is married to the King, Loras is Kingsguard to this King, probably on his way to LC with Jaime missing.

Under Aegon, they won't hold the Regency, the position of Hand, they may not even be able to make Margeary his Queen, they probably won't hold quite as many seats on the small council. And even if they did, Aegon is a grown-up, he's not a boy king like Tommen or Joffrey. Things would have to go pretty bad for the Tyrells to see Aegon as a better prospect then Tommen.

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That leaves us with Rickon who is in Skagos and assumed dead.

whoa why is rickon presumed dead?? he's with osha and shaggydog and Davos is on his way to them. besides if anything had happened to them Jon and Bran and Arya would sense it via their Direwolves as they did when Robb and Grey Wind died and when lady died.

And did i read correctly? Aegon managed to take Storms End by the time Arianne's chapter comes along?

Edited by The Storm King

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whoa why is rickon presumed dead?? he's with osha and shaggydog and Davos is on his way to them. besides if anything had happened to them Jon and Bran and Arya would sense it via their Direwolves as they did when Robb and Grey Wind died and when lady died.

And did i read correctly? Aegon managed to take Storms End by the time Arianne's chapter comes along?

Fred Stark may have been referring to what people in Westeros assume. And yes I believe you read that correctly, at least the golden company members at Griffens Roost say he has captured it.

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whoa why is rickon presumed dead?? he's with osha and shaggydog and Davos is on his way to them. besides if anything had happened to them Jon and Bran and Arya would sense it via their Direwolves as they did when Robb and Grey Wind died and when lady died.

Rickon is assumed dead by the population of Westeros, not the readers of this board/the books. In other words, we know he is alive and w/ Osha and Shaggydog but since word has not gotten out that Theon killed the miller's children in place of Bran and Rickon, Rickon is assumed to be dead.

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Rickon is assumed dead by the population of Westeros, not the readers of this board/the books. In other words, we know he is alive and w/ Osha and Shaggydog but since word has not gotten out that Theon killed the miller's children in place of Bran and Rickon, Rickon is assumed to be dead.

Which is why the bloody great direwolf that follows him like a pet will be so important.

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I am starting to think LF's real deal with the Tyrells was to bump off all the Lannisters and eventually marry LF to Margery when LF can bring in the North, Vale, Riverlands, Westerlands through Sansa and his scheming.

I agree with you..I think yes LF is sort of infatuated with Sansa but not to the point the readers think it is..he smugled her out of Kings Landing because he knew how valuable she is due to various claims she has mainly the North .Plus she is young,maiden and beautiful,Kind in nature, the perfect bride for any king or Prince.He's not gonna touch her or take her maidenhood.She's too valuable for that and I think LF clearly knows that

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The Tyrells would never marry Margery to Littlefinger. For all his power he is still of low birth and none of these "noble families" will ever forget that. Even with the title of Lord of Harrenhall he's still Peter Baelish from The Fingers.

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What are your reasons for actually not liking Danaerys?

What are your reasons for thinking Aegon would make a great king?

I don't really think Dany becoming queen is important right now, I believe her true purpose is to fight in the battle against the Others. However if she survives that Battle I think she will make a fine Queen. With all the other potential kings and queens, if they make a mistake Westeros pays the price. Danaerys already learned what not to do as a Queen in Mereen. Nobody else got to have a dress rehursal at being Queen like Dany did. So I think her second run at it would be very successful. When you think about it, given all the factors in Mereen, she really didn't do that bad of a job. I'm not saying it was good, but I would like to see Aegon try and do a better job than she did if he were given the same exact circumstances. Or anyone for that matter.

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I agree with what you say about Dany's true purpose but what you said about Mereen got me thinking. I get the impression that Dany does not like ruling and all the hassle it brings, from what we see in Dance all her pov's make me think that she dislikes holding court, dealing with the problems that come with being a ruler.

I know this is a little crackpot and I don't know if it's been discussed before so apologies if so but i think maybe Dany might be the one who decides who rules westeros rather than ruling it herself.

Her being the mother of dragons makes me think along the lines that if Jon is the son of Lyanna, Aegon is the real deal and Tyrion is a Targaryen those are the three heads we hear so much about and her role is more that of a mother.

I admit this is crackpot but just thought I'd share my thoughts on this

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