Jump to content
Angalin

[twow Spoilers] Arianne II, Part 2

Recommended Posts

we know that her maidenhead is gone and may have been lost horseback riding. There is no real evidence that she has had a lover. Aegon may get Dorne due to what Qyentin has gone through without marrying Ariane so he needs allies. I would atleast expect the Reach to make the offer. The Queen of Thorns has not been seen in the books lately so who knows. I still think Sansa in the books will end up as Aegon's Queen as she is the one to cast Cersei down.

Pycelles death is going to look suspicious, and his testimony about brewing her moon tea could be entered as given thus far, without him being able to elaborate, if there was anything to elaborate on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pycelles death is going to look suspicious, and his testimony about brewing her moon tea could be entered as given thus far, without him being able to elaborate, if there was anything to elaborate on.

I agree about the Grand Maester's death as he was the "star" whitness against Margeary. His and Kevan's assasinations will look like the Tyrells did it to protect Margeary and weaken house Lannister. Cersie will undoubtably be of that belief and the Tyrells will blame Cersei as Pycelle supported Kevan being in power as he did his brother Tywin before him. Kevan wanted to ship Cersie back to Casterly Rock after her trial. Varys wanted to start open war between the two houses and may have done so. Now, who will be the one to blame the Dornish, as Varys prophesized?

Edited by A Ghost of Someone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arianne travels on the Peregrine. A peregrine is a bird eating raptor, the females of which are bigger than their male counterparts. Does the The George intend for us to question whether Arianne’s part will be bigger than Doran’s? Is The George alluding to the bigger role played by women in Dornish culture?

ETA

The only other ship named for a bird-eating raptor I could find is the Sparrowhawk, one of many ships in the Iron Fleet. 

Interestingly, the only other mention of a peregrine is Margaery's falcon. House Tyrell is another family with dominant women, isn't it?

ETA II

Notice that as they travel to Mistwood, Arianne’s party has trouble finding their way. They need a guide, but Arianne has to find her own way. 

Now, notice that she prays that Daenerys has treated Quentyn better than she treated Viserys. This suggests that Arianne, despite her jealousy toward Quentyn, will be less than pleased with Daenerys when she learns of Quentyn's fate. 

ETA III

Chains reminds us that Aegon needs Dorne. 

Daemon and Arianne agree that capturing Storm's End would earn respect and significant prestige for Aegon and Jon Connington. 

When Arianne asks Lysono for the whereabouts of Daenerys and her dragons, Lysono tells her that they are too far away, echoing Tyrion’s lesson to Aegon in cyvasse. 

ETA IV

Arianne knows that the heart's desire of Dorne (or at least Doran)--Daenerys's Dragons and Doran's son Quentyn, are not with Aegon, and she knows that she will be in danger at Storm's End, but she agrees to go anyway, believing her father wants her to meet Jon Connington and Aegon herself, and realizing that she is already in Aegon’s power. In fact she has been in Aegon’s power since she revealed her identity to John Mudd at Mistwood. 

But notice that Arianne is finding her own way without a guide. 

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

House Whitehead, which apparently lords over Weeping Town, flies Tommen’s banner, but Lord Whitehead’s heir has led 50 men off to join Lord Connington.

First, note that Jon Connington is raising men from the Stormlands for Aegon.

Second, consider whether House Whitehead is divided, or whether they intend to keep one foot in each camp, at least until the coming battle outside Storm’s End is decided.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

War is terrible, just or not. Even a noble commander like Jon Connington cannot completely enforce strict discipline. First, a hosler suggests that the men of the Golden Company have been taking horses, and some have even been killing for them. Arianne then observes refugees flowing in the opposite direction, eerily similar to Arya’s observations when she began her odyssey. She observes laden wagons going into Mistwood, and empty wagons going out, eerily similar to the occupation of Harrenhal, first by Tywin, then by Roose. Chains tells Arianne and Lady Mertyn that they are “foraging.” When Lady Mertyn accuses the Golden Company of raping, John Mudd says some women were merely persuaded, notwithstanding Jon Connington’s proscription against rape.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The debate between the Septon and the Maester suggests that the storm (war in general or Euron?) will not hit Dorne unless Dorne attempts to steal something precious to the gods. Recall that Doran sent Tyene to get close the High Septon. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anybody else see the contrast between Jayne Ladybright and Elia Sand as an allusion to the contrast between Sansa and Arya? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the Epilogue to Dance, Mace says he will not return to invest Storm's End until after Margaery's trial. Since we learn in Arianne II, Dance that Mace is marching on Storm's End, should we assume that Margaery's innocence has been proved? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Does anybody else see the contrast between Jayne Ladybright and Elia Sand as an allusion to the contrast between Sansa and Arya? 

I can't help but see Lyanna in Elia Sand.  It almost seems like George trying to end the debate about whether or not Lyanna was TKOTLT.

 

53 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

In the Epilogue to Dance, Mace says he will not return to invest Storm's End until after Margaery's trial. Since we learn in Arianne II, Dance that Mace is marching on Storm's End, should we assume that Margaery's innocence has been proved? 

Do we know that Mace is leading the host?  I thought we didn't know who was commanding, I've seen a lot of people speculating it will be Tarly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I can't help but see Lyanna in Elia Sand.  It almost seems like George trying to end the debate about whether or not Lyanna was TKOTLT.

 

Do we know that Mace is leading the host?  I thought we didn't know who was commanding, I've seen a lot of people speculating it will be Tarly.

Well, The Ned sees a lot of Lynn a his little girl, so the analogy holds. I'm assuming Mace would go himself. On the other hand, with Kevan dead, Tommen still a boy, Cersei without a Lannister host in King's Landing, Mace is the most powerful person in King's Landing, and he may want to maintain that position. So, send in Randy would make the most sense. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reading the transcription of Arianne II, Winds, it occurs to me that Lysono Maar is a descendant of Daemon Blackfyre. The lilac eyes and the white gold hair are more common features in Lys, but still, those are Targaryen features.

The one thing that gives me pause is that he was not known to Jon Connington, who rode with Golden Company for five years. But that was what, 14 years ago? Assuming Lysono is under 30, he would have been still a boy when Jon was in the company.

Assuming Lysono is a Blackfyre helps to make sense of this statement coming from the effeminate spy master rather than one of his more martial comrades...

Quote

"Sack Meereen, aye, why not? I would have done the same in her place. The slaver cities reek of gold, and conquest requires coin."

Notice that Lysono argues most adamantly against retrieving Daenerys. In fact, after Franklyn Flowers endorsed Aegon's proposal to sail west instead, Lysono advised that the Volantenes would be eager to lend them ships to sail to Westeros. Then, when Harry Strickland reminded them that they wanted, even needed Daenerys's dragons, it was Lysono who said...

Quote

"The first Aegon took Westeros without eunuchs,” said Lysono Maar. “Why shouldn’t the sixth Aegon do the same?"

In Arianne II, Winds, in Weeping Town, the storyteller takes time to tell us that the corpse of Daeron I remained there for some time after he was killed in Dorne. Is the author focusing our attention on a dead Targaryen for a reason? Rhaegar's heir was also killed, with his corpse displayed for the realm to see.

Arianne's party departs Weeping Town with the rising sun (a symbol of Dorne), through green (the color associated with Aegon's side against the the queen in the Dance of the Dragons) fields, and into the blackest (the color of the Blackfyre dragon) pitch under the canopy of the Rainwood at night. 

We are reminded of what Catelyn told Robb about House Mudd--that the line of Tristifer Mudd ended after his heir failed him. But of course, we meet a Mudd in the Golden Company. So, even though the line was supposedly exinguished, and John Mudd maybe a shoot from a lower branch on the tree, we see that old names thought to be extinguished (like Blackfyre) can resurface. 

Chains's proudest boast is that his great grandfather fought with Blackfyre and followed Bittersteel. Even though, he was bastard born in Essos three generations later, he was raised as a Westerosi, speaking the Common Tongue. 

Then Arianne meets Lysono Maar, and she notes that he speaks the Common Tongue very well, like Chains, no? 

As they talk about the beauty of Targaryen men, Lysono says he has only met one Targaryen man. Well, the Arianne and the casual reader would assume he is referring to Aegon. But didn't Daenerys tell us that Viserys feasted the captains of the Golden Company? And shouldn't we assume that Lysono was among those captains who laughed at them? If so, then Lysono met Aegon and Viserys, but he says he has only met one Targaryen man. 

Lysono claims Aegon is the son of Rhaegar and Elia, but if Aegon is The Blackfyre, Lysono has to lie to effect the ruse, and something about Lysono makes Arianne's skin crawl. This is a signal that the Dornish princess is not so much offended by his effeminate appearance, but that we should mistrust what he says. 

And note that Lysono Maar, just "a sellsword late of the Free City of Lys," is offended by the term sellswords, asserting that the Golden Company is a "free brotherhood of exiles," still persistent even after several failures.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

George just posted a new sample of the Winds of Winter. It is Arianne II, her second POV chapter that he already read in an Conference. We already had details about this chapter, but here is it to us to read

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/

Here is his original entry in Not A Blog

http://grrm.livejournal.com/487298.html

DISCLAIMER: The link is dated as April 2 2015, because George edited an older entry.

Edited by Arrow of the Morning

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Aegon has taken Storm's End somehow and Mace moves his army against him. I'll admit I never felt involved with the Dorne storyline but I'm starting to enjoy it now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That was a nice chapter. I have to admit, I wasn't very excited by the prospect of another Arianne chapter to slog through. The notes didn't get my hopes up, but reading it was pretty good :) Although, I'm bummed out that I can't see what comes next in this storyline. I'm still zen about waiting for Winds, but at moments like this the craving for it can manifest itself in powerful ways.

19 minutes ago, aFeastForDragons said:

So Aegon has taken Storm's End somehow and Mace moves his army against him.

I wonder who is leading that army. It's been a while since I read Dance, but if I recall correctly, Rowan was besieging SE. So, Connington must have either killed, captured, routed or - imo the most likely bet - turned lord Rowan. I don't believe Mace himself would come down to SE (free victory for the GC otherwise), since I don't think the timeline allows for Margaery's trial to have already happened (I could be spectacularly wrong on that count though, like I said it's been a while).

With the Tyrell bro's out to oust the Ironborn from their turf, I can only see Randyll Tarly as the commander of that host. Which is really interesting. I have speculated for a long time that Randyll is a hidden Blackfyre supporter, so we might see him turn his coat (and just like that, Faegon would have gone from zero to hero. Especially if Arianne fucks up and joins them). If he's not a BF supporter (or still not willing to bet on the weaker side which is a distinct possibility), I'm curious to see how J-Con and Faegon handle the inevitable battle. 

26 minutes ago, aFeastForDragons said:

 I'll admit I never felt involved with the Dorne storyline but I'm starting to enjoy it now. 

 I was gushing a bit about the potential in story political implications of the revelations in this chapter, but there is probably one thing I look forward to more in Arianne III:

Quote

“ …like a Targaryen,” Arianne insisted. His eyes were a pale lilac, his hair a waterfall of white and gold. All the same, something about him made her skin crawl. Was this what Viserys looked like? she found herself wondering. If so perhaps it is a good thing he is dead.  

“I am flattered. The women of House Targaryen are said to be without peer in all the world.”

“And the men of House Targaryen?”

“Oh, even prettier. Though if truth be told, I have only seen the one.”  Maar took her hand in his own, and kissed her lightly on the wrist.

Can you imagine Arianne's reaction to Faegon after this exchanche? She'll probably find herself looking at that potential Faegon-Dorne alliance a lot more favourably ;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎6‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 4:30 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

In the Epilogue to Dance, Mace says he will not return to invest Storm's End until after Margaery's trial. Since we learn in Arianne II, Dance that Mace is marching on Storm's End, should we assume that Margaery's innocence has been proved? 

Or Aegon having taken Storm's End has spurred Mance/IT into action. The difference being if that's the case you're likely looking at a split force, say half half, 15k marching on Aegon, possible 'friends' to the GC among them, run through them and it's onto KL. KL with 15k with which to forcibly take Marge if the trial goes bad, against the Faith and a city of half a million if the people (with arms possibly readily available if the Faith have stocked) decide to enter the fray. Cersei might not even use the Gold Cloaks, rather sit it out and let the Faith and Tyrell's have at each other. Blood in the gutter inside the city walls, Aegon and the GC arrive outside.

Cloth dragon, cheering crowd.

Quote

Dusk found them on the fringes of the rainwood, a wet green world where brooks and rivers ran through dark forests and the ground was made of mud and rotting leaves. Huge willows grew along the watercourses, larger than any that Arianne had ever seen, their great trunks as gnarled and twisted as an old man’s face and festooned with beards of silvery moss. Trees pressed close on every side, shutting out the sun; hemlock and red cedars, white oaks, soldier pines that stood as tall and straight as towers, colossal sentinels, big-leaf maples, redwoods, wormtrees, even here and there a wild weirwood. Underneath their tangled branches ferns and flowers grew in profusion; sword ferns, lady ferns, bellflowers and piper’s lace, evening stars and poison kisses, liverwort, lungwort, hornwort. Mushrooms sprouted down amongst the tree roots, and from their trunks as well, pale spotted hands that caught the rain. Other trees were furred with moss, green or grey or red-tailed, and once a vivid purple.

Much Bloodraven. Mushrooms = poison, by Bloodraven's hand. Why is he catching rain?

Green and moss = Rhaegal. Grey = greyscale? Red-tail = Comet? Purple = Dany or Aegon.

Quote

Lichens covered every rock and stone. Toadstools festered besides rotting logs. The very air seemed green.

Rock, stone, festering, rot, green air = Greyscale.

Quote

Arianne had once heard her father and Maester Caleotte arguing with a septon about why the north and south sides of the Sea of Dorne were so different. The septon thought it was because of Durran Godsgrief, the first Storm King, who had stolen the daughter of the sea god and the goddess of the wind and earned their eternal emnity. Prince Doran and the maester inclined more toward wind and water, and spoke of how the big storms that formed down in the Summer Sea would pick up moisture moving north until they slammed into Cape Wrath. For some strange reason the storms never seemed to strike at Dorne, she recalled her father saying.   “I know your reason,” the septon had responded.  “No Dornishmen ever stole away the daughter of two gods.”

No, but Quentyn did try and steal away a child of one god, but he failed.

Daenerys the Stormborn and Euron, the first and last storm, the King of Salt and Stone, will be the two gods. The question is what 'daughter' is Arianne going to steal that will bring the wraths of the gods of sea and storm down on Dorne.

Edited by chrisdaw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've enjoyed the chapter, it's moody and interesting, perhaps diminished by already knowing fAegon took storm's end. 

What will happen next, I see only two outcomes, the battle happens and fAegon is destroyed (I doubt the GC I'd strong enough to face a Reach army that likely has many times their numbers) or he converts the army. The problem here is the first option puts a period to the whole Aegon story, and the only lasting ramifications could be the capture of Arianne, and the second option is a bit of a stretch, yet the one everyone (including me) expect to happen, thus it's theoretical "surprise efect" is much diminished. 

In any case, I cannot wait for the Winds of Winter launch! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I enjoyed it.  I thought the description of the greenery in the rain very evocative: I could almost smell it.  I'm intrigued by the cave of faces and wonder if that will have further significance.

I'm also inclined to think that Storm's End was given up rather than conquered.  I find I'm very excited for the meeting between Arianne and JonCon, possibly more than her meeting Aegon, but that is partly because I don't want the action with JonCon and Aegon being reported - I very much want a point of view in place for this.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Already knew the details of this one because he's read it at cons, but it's nice to read it myself.  I usually try to find foreshadowing in these sample chapters, but I don't see any in this one.  Maybe I'm just out of practice.  

24 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

Can you imagine Arianne's reaction to Faegon after this exchanche? She'll probably find herself looking at that potential Faegon-Dorne alliance a lot more favourably ;) 

I agree, Aegon + Arianne just makes too much sense not to happen.  

9 minutes ago, Blade of Sunlight said:

What will happen next, I see only two outcomes, the battle happens and fAegon is destroyed (I doubt the GC I'd strong enough to face a Reach army that likely has many times their numbers) or he converts the army. The problem here is the first option puts a period to the whole Aegon story, and the only lasting ramifications could be the capture of Arianne, and the second option is a bit of a stretch, yet the one everyone (including me) expect to happen, thus it's theoretical "surprise efect" is much diminished. 

Unless I'm misremembering, there is a Dornish army waiting in the Boneway for Arianne to call for them by sending the word "Dragon" via raven.  So she meets Aegon, decides to commit Dorne to him and suddenly the Dornish army pours out of the Boneway to crush the Tyrell army.  Pretty simple.  

I think something will come of that whole "friends in the Reach" thing eventually, but I don't think it's how Aegon wins this particular battle.  

Edited by Ser Wun Wun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BoS - as you say, if fAegon is killed it renders that whole storyline as relevant as Dorne to D&D in the show. Can't see it myself. GRRM quite deliberately dropped us a taster without giving anything of the substantial developments in TWOW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, aFeastForDragons said:

So Aegon has taken Storm's End somehow and Mace moves his army against him. I'll admit I never felt involved with the Dorne storyline but I'm starting to enjoy it now. 

 

20 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

With the Tyrell bro's out to oust the Ironborn from their turf, I can only see Randyll Tarly as the commander of that host.

Randyl made a vow to the High Septon to return Margaery and her cousins to the Faith to their trial, so probably he had to stay in King's Landing. Mace is leading the army and it is not so odd, h is a man that never truly won a battle as commander and is eager to gain his laurels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×